[PW] The King's Shilling

[Winters, Murl]

In Lee Hadden's reply he mentions searching for the King's shilling in
print.
The OED, 2nd edition has a date of 1707 (for the earliest known
appearance in print), under shilling, definition 5c, within the "various
proverbial expressions." ["to take the shilling, the King's, or Queen's
shilling: to enlist as a soldier by accepting a shilling from a
recruiting officer (a practice now disused)"]
Murl Winters
Associate Library Director
Evangel University
Springfield, MO 65802


-----Original Message-----
From: project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org
[mailto:project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org] On Behalf Of
Hadden, Robert L ERDC-TEC-VA
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:03 AM
To: list at project-wombat.org
Cc: JTofteland at AnkenyIowa.gov
Subject: Re: [PW] The King's Shilling

Dear Joy:
	I'm not sure you will find an origin to this phrase. It is used,
misused, and changed over the years, and is in the common domain. Like
"pay
the piper, pick the tune," it can vaguely be put back in time to a
certain
place, but who first said it is very different from who first wrote it
down,
which is what I suspect you are looking for.
	You will probably have better luck searching for the "King's
shilling" rather than the "king's coin." The shilling is the wage of a
soldier, and many men were often trapped into accepting the shilling,
and
thus becoming recruits during peacetime in the 18th century. During
wartime,
the men could be impressed, or involuntarily drafted by the persuasive
power
of a belaying pin, by press gangs sent inland by warships needing new
recruits. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_shilling
	A favorite method was for the recruiting sergeant to lose the
spiel
to get a young man to enlist, so in compensation and to show no hard
feelings, the sergeant would offer to buy him a drink. Tipped into the
ale
mug unseen would be a shilling, which would flow into the young man's
mouth,
and thus he accepted the king's shilling, and is enlisted in his
majesty's
army.
	In one account of work in the US State Department, the similar
phrase
is used: "In so doing, we need to appreciate again that taking the
"king's
shilling" sometimes incurs personal liability, requiring us to go places
we
would not otherwise serve. For a period in the late 1960s, every
unmarried
entering Foreign Service officer who had not already undertaken military
service was assigned to Vietnam." See:
http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2008/0103/jone/jones_shilling.htm
l
	There is another use of this expression concerning the military,
but
with inverted syntax: Question: "I want to join in [the Army National
Guard]
for the benefits, training, exercise, and for helping. But I do not want
to
go to war you know? Can you help pls?" Answer: "The purpose of the Army
is to
deploy overseas in combat operations. If you're not on board with that,
then
the Army is not the place for you (actually, none of the military
services is
for you). If you are unwilling to do the king's business, then do not
take
the king's shilling." See:
http://www.1800goguard.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2775.html
	

R. Lee Hadden
Geospatial Information Library (GIL)
Topographic Engineering Center
ATTN: CEERD-TO-I (Hadden)
7701 Telegraph Road
Alexandria, VA 22315-3864
(703) 428-9206
Robert.L.Hadden at usace.army.mil

See some of my writings, both online and on paper, at my author page at:
http://www.librarything.com/author/haddenrobertlee

-----Original Message-----

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 13:09:38 -0500
From: Joy Tofteland <>
Subject: [PW] Origin of quote
To: "'list at project-wombat.org'" <list at project-wombat.org>
Message-ID:
	
<8907508A20232A4281CEADE2C533E3B202C94F2196 at s-gabby.ci.ankeny.ia.us>
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I am trying to find the origin of the quote "You take the king's coin,
you do
the king's (business/bidding)"  I have not been able to verify it in
Bartlett's or Yale Book of Quotations.  A Google search provides many
variants of the quote and attributes it to a "common expression" or "an
old
saying".  Patron needs an accurate quote and origin.  Please help.

Joy Tofteland
Reference/Technical Resources Librarian
Kirkendall Public Library
Ankeny, IA


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