[PW] Origin of "Talking through his hat"?

[Bye, Dan J]

I mean, of course, the "keep it under your hat" phrase.   I forget to make the link, probably because it's still very early!   Probably all these hat phrases date from a similar time, no?


Dan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org 
> [mailto:project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org] On 
> Behalf Of Bye, Dan J
> Sent: 02 October 2007 09:35
> To: list at project-wombat.org
> Subject: Re: [PW] Origin of "Talking through his hat"?
> 
> 
> Brewers Phrase and Fable speculates that the phrase 
> originates in Victorian times, when "urchin" message boys, 
> lacking pockets, would keep messages under their hats.    I'm 
> not convinced.
> 
> Dan
>  
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org
> > [mailto:project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org] On 
> Behalf Of 
> > Dennis Lien
> > Sent: 01 October 2007 19:18
> > To: list at project-wombat.org
> > Subject: Re: [PW] Origin of "Talking through his hat"?
> > 
> > At 06:50 PM 9/27/2007, you wrote:
> > 
> > >I'm looking for the likely origin of the phrase "talking 
> through his 
> > >hat", alternately "talking into his hat."  I've checked online 
> > >resources and database collections, including Oxford references.
> > >
> > >Google Books does not show an entry earlier than the 1880s, though 
> > >accounts of Joseph Smith recount that he talked into his hat to 
> > >translate the Book of Mormon, which would have been before
> > 1880.  Are
> > >there earlier references?
> > 
> > 
> > I don't know about origin, but the phrase appears to have become 
> > popular in 1891/2, judging from searches in the full text NEW YORK 
> > TIMES and CHICAGO TRIBUNE:
> > 
> > earliest instances found:
> > 
> > talking through his hat / 15 November 1892 in NT; 1 June 1891 in CT 
> > talks . . . through his hat / 21 October 1892; 4 June 1891 in CT
> > 
> > The 4 June 1891 CHICAGO TRIBUNE entry (page 4) is especially
> > interesting: it's a short anonymous poem:
> > 
> > "The man who jabbers in a way,
> > Particularly flat
> > 'Tis now the proper slang to say
> > Is talking through his hat.
> > 
> > The boaster of the blooming jay
> > Whose self-conceited chat
> > Is sure to give him dead away
> > Is talking through his hat.
> > 
> > And he who says for President
> > Three hundred pounds of fat
> > Will win next year's big race event
> > Talks likewise through his hat.
> > 
> > In the TRIBUNE there are eight appearances in 1891 alone, 
> four of them 
> > in June; there are eighteen in the TRIBUNE before the first in the 
> > TIMES.
> > 
> > 
> > Dennis Lien / U of Minnesota Libraries // d-lien at umn.edu
> > 
> > 
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