[PW] !@! Re: Online booksellers Redux

[cvj at hcvco.com]

And this is relevant to the original question, how?

And is of interest to the list, how?

And should be taking up space in the archives, why?  Connie

>
> It seems funny that "the economies of scale" seem to be going,
> as it were, in reverse for these booksellers.
>
> If Rennaisance is the biggest, they should be doing the best--
> have the highest batting average for turnover, the selections,
> as it were, of the best pickers and choosers, the best list of
> what books are wanted by whom around the world, all resulting,
> one should hope, in a higher rate of success in bookselling.
>
> However, according to the averages of the figures you listed--
> they must be making 60% off the average book you send them.
>
> We have seen reports below of only 10-20% of the books selling
> in a two year period of time. . .perhaps it would be out of an
> ordinary line of conversation to suggest that a professional's
> batting average should be higher.
>
> In addition, these numbers don't quite add up, expect the very
> minimal ones on the edges:
>
> If you only sell 10%. . .the bottom edge. . .and you make your
> 300-500% profit on those, then you are averaging 40% profit on
> the books, the same high profit everyone complains about quite
> regularly concerning the big retail/wholesale chains.
>
> If you sell 20%. . . the top edge. . . you make 80%. . . .
>
> If you sell 15%. . .the middle. . .you make 60%. . . .
>
> All these are pretty high figures from an ordinary POV. . . .
>
> In these days of being able to keep lists of what people want,
> from around the world, literally globalization, I should think
> and hope that one could increase that "batting average" above,
> not to mention creating some system to get rid of the books on
> the other end of the scale that haven't sold.
>
> Yes. . .
>
> It seems funny that "the economies of scale" seem to be going,
> as it were, in reverse for these booksellers.
>
> Perhaps that is why eBay and others, even garage sales, should
> not be written off so lightly.
>
> Today anyone can set up a virtual store, compile lists of what
> people want to buy and sell, eliminate warehousing, have brick
> and mortar stores only in their dreams, or nightmares, and can
> outcompete these behemoth dinosaurs of Jurassic Pork.
>
> Presuming that most people start their businesses small and in
> their own homes, garages, etc., such as we hear about of often
> in their histories, the question arises as to how they charged
> more when business got better instead of charging less ?!?
>
> I always thought that the person who did the job better had an
> elementary advantage over the person who did it worse, doing a
> certain amount less work, in less time, higher rate of success
> and all those things that add up to making more with less.
>
> "Yankee Ingenuity" is what they used to call that. . .when the
> "Yankee Clippers" were invented that could make an extra trip,
> or two, or three, per year, due to their better design, speed,
> etc., and the fixed costs of owning the ships, paying salaries
> by the year, and all that stayed pretty much constant while an
> extra trip, or two, or three of profitability resulted.
>
> One would like to think, as a result, that prices went down as
> a result of more efficiency of business, but it appears to be,
> for reasons no one has explained, that prices are going up for
> those companies who appear to have all these advantages.
>
> The Big Boys have all the fancy lawyers and accountant to push
> the tax load off onto those without such lawyers, accountants,
> MBA's and the like.
>
> The Big Boys have all the computer listings of who wants to do
> what kind of buying and selling.
>
> The Big Boys can have their buildings custom made to efficient
> use of their time and space, heating and cooling, while little
> people have to just make do with what is available.
>
> The Big Boys can lobby their municipalities for this and that,
> while the little people end up playing on a tilted field.
>
> So why is it that with your own numbers given below profits of
> 60% per book, on the average of your reports, would be largely
> justified by answers we never see to questions everyone asks?
>
> Obviously with the Biggest Big Boys we know not inconsiderable
> sums go to CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, etc., in the form of a parachutes
> clause that may literally be diamond encrusted platinum and in
> many cases those few top compensation packages may take up the
> same amount as is paid in income tax, or property tax, or even
> all the combined taxes of a billion dollar corporation.
>
> Is that what is happening here?
>
> We always ask where the money went. . . .
>
> The answer ALWAYS is. . .it went somewhere else. . . .
>
> It seems that only Bill Gates, Sam Walton, George Soros, etc.,
> are willing to stand up and say:
>
> "I earned every penny!"
>
>
>
> Thank You!!!
>
>
> Give the world eBooks in 2007!!!
>
> Michael S. Hart
> Founder
> Project Gutenberg
>
> 100,000 eBooks easy to download at:
> http://www.gutenberg.org [coming up on 25,000 eBooks]
> http://www/gutenberg.cc [already passed 75,000 eBooks]
> http://gutenberg.net.au   Project Gutenberg of Australia 1500+
> http://pge.rastko.net 65 languages  PG of Europe ~500
>
> July 4 to Aug 4 go to http://worldebookfair.com
> 2/3 million free eBooks, 110,000 commercial eBooks
> 787,000 total eBook files available
>
> Blog at http://hart.pglaf.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 26 May 2007, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>
>> On 5/24/07, Edith Bailes <edieb at suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>>> Sorry, but I don't understand this at all:
>>> - - - -
>>>
>>> "Most of those vendors are dealers, and buy books by the boxful (I've
>>> bought batches going well into four figures for price, five figures
>>> for quantity)."
>>> - - - -
>>>
>>> Where do you get your information? I've been selling my own books on
>>> line
>>> for two or three years, in an effort to empty out my shelves to make
>>> room
>>> for more.  :^(  Many who sell on line are very small-volume sellers
>>> like me.
>>> I do have a lot of books (a lifetime accumulation) but I certainly
>>> don't buy
>>> them by the boxful.
>>
>> I'm talking about buying bulk books wholesale as merchandise for one
>> of the largest used book stores on the North American continent,
>> Renaissance Books in Milwaukee; something I've been doing since 1978.
>>
>>
>>> "When I am buying for Renaissance, I have to assume a
>>> 300-500% markup from what I pay, in order to have any chance of a
>>> profit. So if a book retails for $70 (I mean real price, not
>>> asking-price-online-by-an-inexperienced-dealer), I hope to have paid
>>> $15 or less for it."
>>> - - - -
>>>
>>> I don't want to give offense, and I'm sure you have a reason for saying
>>> what
>>> you say, but here's something from another viewpoint:
>>
>> The problem is that when I buy forty boxes of somebody's unwanted
>> books, only about 10-20% of them are going to sell within the next two
>> years; and I have no way of knowing WHICH 10-20% they are. (There are
>> books on the shelves at Renaissance that were there when I came to
>> work for them, tying up capital and increasing overhead.) The price we
>> get for the 15-20% that do sell has to cover the cost not only of all
>> the books bought in that particular purchase, but the other overhead
>> items like property taxes, mortgage, utilities, and my pitiful wages.
>> The return on investment of the store's owner is so lousy that he
>> would have been far better off putting all his money into T-bills and
>> firing all of the workers decades ago.
>>
>>
>>> Whenever I'd try to sell some of my books to an actal used-book seller,
>>> somehow all my books, even those that had never been read, had suddenly
>>> developed "condition" problems or were otherwise "unsellable". The
>>> dealers
>>> would offer to "take them off my hands" but weren't willing to pay
>>> anything
>>> for them.
>>>
>>> Baloney.
>>
>> Agreed. That's bad bargaining in bad faith.
>>
>>
>>> All these "problems" appeared only because that bookseller was looking
>>> for
>>> pure profit.
>>>
>>> I started selling on line because I was tired of people trying to rip
>>> me off
>>> like that.
>>> It seemed reasonable to me to want to keep any profit for myself and my
>>> children, and not just give perfectly good books away.
>>
>> In a free market economy, you are under no obligation; and the dealer
>> is under no obligation to buy.
>>
>>
>>> I've sold nearly-new books on line, and I've sold books on line that
>>> were in
>>> horrible condition. I've had no complaints from the buyers. It doesn't
>>> matter what kind of shape books are in, if they don't smell and the
>>> pages
>>> aren't stuck together, there's usually somebody who will want them. The
>>> trick is to describe them honestly and price them according to their
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> I've gotten prices for all my books that I think are very fair, and
>>> some
>>> have sold for such a high price they have really surprised me.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of people who are not book collectors, but who are
>>> interested in the content of a book and not its appearance or its
>>> rarity.
>>> There are plenty of people who want a certain book to read or just to
>>> have,
>>> but can't afford a copy that's in the best condition.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I don't think it's smart to order a book from
>>> somebody
>>> who is offering it for a penny.
>>>
>>> I enourage anybody who has "too many" books (is there such a thing?) to
>>> sign
>>> on with an on-line site and begin to sell them yourself. Just be
>>> careful
>>> which site you choose; some are easier to work with than others, and
>>> some
>>> will get better prices for you than others. I speak as one who has
>>> tried
>>> five different on-line sites before settling on the one that works best
>>> for
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Look up your books and see what other people are asking for them in
>>> similar
>>> condition, and price yours accordingly.
>>>
>>> For me it has been quite profitable, and it's fun. It'd be a lot more
>>> fun if
>>> I didn't have to pay taxes on the profit!
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting me vent about one of my personal pet peeves.
>>
>> Nothing wrong with venting.
>>
>> The economics of online vending by amateurs are quite different from
>> those of a brick-and-mortar store. I've seen so many of the latter go
>> bankrupt over the past three decades that it depresses me.
>>
>> --
>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>>
>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food
>> and clothes."
>>     --  Desiderius Erasmus
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