[PW] two questions; one old, one new

[Daphne Drewello]

Mark Halpern wrote

> 2.  Some German noblemen have names of the pattern X von  Y; others are X
>zu Y (and some are even X von und zu Y).  What is the  significance of the
> different patterns?

  A little help can be found here.

http://tinyurl.com/yrqjvx

=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:57:19 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L at BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L at BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle at DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Vom und Zum and German titles of nobility

Ted Neveln asked:

<Certain German nobles have Vom und Zum as part of their title. I have not
found a reference source to explain what that means in terms of title....

Debrett (my edition is 1992) says: "Graf is often left untranslated, but
sometimes Count is used. It is sometimes followed by the family name (e.g.
Wolff-Metternich), but more often by von, or very occasionally 'von' and
'zu' (e.g. 'von und zu Bodman'). 'Zu' means that the family still owns their
name place. 'Von und zu' is a 19th-century bit of nonsense which
nevertheless exists......


************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue
London W12 8JB, UK
e-mail: cshuttle at dircon.co.uk
****************************************************

Daphne Drewello
Alfred Dickey Library
Jamestown, ND