[PW] Re: Children and fools always speak the truth - source

[swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com]

Have not located his source, but did notice there is alternative wording which can sometimes make a difference on successful searches. Here is the information from three proverb books to help with possible clues.
 
2. Children and fools speak the truth. Vars.: (a) Children and crazy people speak the truth. (b) Children and drunkards speak the truth. (c) Children, fools, and drunkards tell the truth. Rec. dist.: U.S., Can.1st cit.: 1537 Hayes in State Papers of Henry VIII; US 1785 Letters of Rev. William Gordon, Historian of American Revolution, Mass.Hist.Soc. Collections ( 1929-30). 20c. coll.: ODEP119, Whiting71, CODP 36, Stevenson 342:9, Whiting(MP) 111 
Wolfgang Mieder, Stewart A. Kingsbury, and Kelsie B. Harder, eds., A Dictionary of American Proverbs (New York: Oxford University Press, 1996) 96
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1539 TAVERNER Erasm. Prov. ( 1552) 62 Oure common prouerbe . . . Children, drunkers and fooles, can not lye. 1546 J. HEYWOOD Prov. ( 1867) I. xi. 31 Men say also, children and fooles can not ly. 1670 BAY Prov.69 Children and fools speak truth. 1805 SCOTT Let. to Ellis in Lockhart xiii It is a proverb, that children and fools talk truth. 
The Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1935) 76
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3. Children and fools speak the truth. 1546: Heywood, Proverbs, Pt. I. ch. xi., Children and fooles can not ly. 1591: Lyly, Endymion, IV. ii., 'Tis an old said saw, "Children and fools speak true." c.1610: Rowlands, More Knaues Yet?, 36 ( Hunt. Cl.), Fooles and babes tell true. 1652: Tatham, Scots Figgaries, III., I am but a fool, 'tis confest, -- but children and fools tell truth sometimes, you know. 1769: Colman, Man and Wife, III., Fools and children always speak truth, they say. 1805: Scott, in Loekhart's Life, ii. 22. 1921: Evening Standard, 21 Oct., p. 9, col. 2, Solicitor (to a witness in the Bow County Court to-day) : -- " Are you telling the truth in this case? " Witness : -- " Only children and fools tell the truth." 
G. L. Apperson, English Proverbs and Proverbial Phrases: A Historical Dictionary (London: J.M. Dent and Sons, 1929) 96

.....................

Sue Watkins
National Genealogical Society/
Association of Professional Genealogists 


----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Imparato <jimparat at mail.tscpl.org>
To: list at project-wombat.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2006 2:41:45 PM
Subject: [PW] Re: Children and fools always speak the truth - source


I should have quoted my source which quotes Euripides, but astute friend
has just done it.  So from this can anyone elaborate on where Erasmus
got his source?