[PW] Re: Honi soit ...

[FERGUSON Timothy]

Well, the problem here is that you are accepting a folktale as a historical one.
 
The tale you quote is a chivalric one: a countess's garter slips to the floor and people snigger at her.  Edward III, being a gallant man, ties her garter about his own leg and says "Shamed be he who thinks ill of it."  Sniggering at the king is a very bad idea in medieval times.  
 
Just to be clear, it's not a stocking...its a strip tied at the top of the stocking to keep it up.  A person losing their garter is like, well, Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction that seemed to so distress Americans at the Superbowl.  
 
Now, there is some possibility that this story, which seems to appear first in France, was created by an enemy of the English to mock their highest order of chivalry. The motto "Shamed be he who thinks ill of it", in French, may better refer to Edward III's right to claim to the throne of France. It becomes attached to the highest order of knighthood in England because from its very foundation, the king is a member, and all of the members must meet the king annually for the feast of the Order.  Access to the king is pure and simple power.
 
The garter is perhaps the strap used to hold armor on...the Order of the Garter's historian says the king gave forth his garter as a banner to begin a battle, although what exactly that means I'm not sure. There's a story from Henry the Eighth's time that Richard the First gave garters to men who had served well in battle, much as we give medals now (coins on ribbon are structurally only not odd to us through familiartiy).
 
 
 
 
 
 

________________________________

From: project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org on behalf of Fuller, Thomas (US - Washington D.C.)
Sent: Fri 4/08/2006 5:15 AM
To: list at project-wombat.org
Subject: [PW] Honi soit ...



Since this has come up, and since we're laboring through the summer
sleepies, can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the Garter's motto,
"Honi soit qui mal y pense"?  Most reference books just translate it
("Shamed be he who thinks evil of it") and retell the story of Edward
III picking up the Countess of Salisbury's fallen garter, as if that
explains the whole thing. 

It never has, to me.  Why would anybody think evil of it?  Because of
the accidental revealing of an undergarment?  And where's the shame,
really, in a few snickers at a stocking?  Why should Edward tying the
garter on his sleeve fix anything, assuming something needed fixing?
And why should the garter, and the motto, then become attached to the
most elevated order of British knighthood?  Who would think evil of such
a badge, even if it started out as something embarrassing?  "Dont tread
on me", I get.  "Liberte, egalite, fraternite", I get.  Shame on the
garter, I don't get.

I've never seen anyone really explain this.  Maybe I'm super-clueless
and nobody else needs an explanation, but I sure do.

-- Tom

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