[PW] Re: Honi soit ...

[Brian Whatcott]

"Fuller, Thomas (US - Washington D.C.)" <tfuller at DELOITTE.com> wrote:

>  Since this has come up, and since we're laboring through the summer
>sleepies, can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the Garter's motto,
>"Honi soit qui mal y pense"? Most reference books just translate it
>("Shamed be he who thinks evil of it") and retell the story of Edward
>III picking up the Countess of Salisbury's fallen garter, as if that
>explains the whole thing.
>
>It never has, to me. Why would anybody think evil of it? Because of
>the accidental revealing of an undergarment? And where's the shame,
>really, in a few snickers at a stocking? Why should Edward tying the
>garter on his sleeve fix anything, assuming something needed fixing?
>And why should the garter, and the motto, then become attached to the
>most elevated order of British knighthood? Who would think evil of such
>a badge, even if it started out as something embarrassing? "Dont tread
>on me", I get. "Liberte, egalite, fraternite", I get. Shame on the
>garter, I don't get.
>
>I've never seen anyone really explain this. Maybe I'm super-clueless
>and nobody else needs an explanation, but I sure do.
>
>-- Tom

I offer the following speculation as a spark that flew off,
as the iron from Tom hit the flint with the question,
What does " honi soit qui mal y pense" really mean?

I start by mentioning that shame, conscience, embarrassment,
chivalrous treatment of women, and personal honor
are qualities that are socially conditioned, and  typically
  not exceptionally evident in American social  interactions.

You will easily recall that Europeans  tend to dish out the
deferential social treatment to women. Hold doors, kiss hands,
embrace on meeting and parting, kiss women on the cheek.

You will undoubtedly  have heard of Japanese resigning
  from senior positions in commerce and government, if some
irregularity has become associated with them.
This is at least a step away from that older practice of
  resolving matters of dishonor at the point of the
  (self-administered) sword.
Evisceration is particularly punishing, because it was
known that death came slowly and agonizingly.

In positions where honor was held as important, disgrace
could mean the opportunity to resolve the issue in private,
  with  one's sidearm - a Victorian Army practice, for example.

In questions of slurs on a gentleman's honor, a former remedy
  was to offer a duel. An example of such a deadly slur was
  to assert that a person was lying.
Again, there is a parallel in the Japanese habit of
avoidance of "losing face" - a social crime to one's honor.

This is the background against which the saving of a maiden
in distress was an expected, and rewarded social gesture.
  A well turned phrase, in the Court language, would be
appropriate. Remember that writing poetry was not
  beneath the Royal person: Elizabeth R for example wrote
  magnificent love poetry.
    See?


Brian Whatcott    Altus OK    Eureka!