[PW] Re: Honi soit ...

[Dan Clinton]

For an intersting point of view, John Gardner discussed the garter business in his "Life and Times of Chaucer." Read recently but I don't have it in fromto fo me at the moment.

Dan Clinton
Census / Suitland

>From: "John P. Dyson" <dyson at indiana.edu>
>Date: 2006/08/03 Thu PM 03:24:04 CDT
>To: list at project-wombat.org
>Subject: [PW] Re: Honi soit ...

>Tom,
>
>The motto is a medieval version of "What goes around comes around:" 
>"Evil unto him who evil thinks." It requires no lady's leg and no 
>king's arm for any meaning. Besides, the garter is actually a strap. 
>Think of the possibilities.
>
>Honi: I shrunk the kids,
>
>John Dyson
>
>
>Quoting "Fuller, Thomas (US - Washington D.C.)" <tfuller at DELOITTE.com>:
>
>> Since this has come up, and since we're laboring through the summer
>> sleepies, can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the Garter's motto,
>> "Honi soit qui mal y pense"?  Most reference books just translate it
>> ("Shamed be he who thinks evil of it") and retell the story of Edward
>> III picking up the Countess of Salisbury's fallen garter, as if that
>> explains the whole thing.
>>
>> It never has, to me.  Why would anybody think evil of it?  Because of
>> the accidental revealing of an undergarment?  And where's the shame,
>> really, in a few snickers at a stocking?  Why should Edward tying the
>> garter on his sleeve fix anything, assuming something needed fixing?
>> And why should the garter, and the motto, then become attached to the
>> most elevated order of British knighthood?  Who would think evil of such
>> a badge, even if it started out as something embarrassing?  "Dont tread
>> on me", I get.  "Liberte, egalite, fraternite", I get.  Shame on the
>> garter, I don't get.
>>
>> I've never seen anyone really explain this.  Maybe I'm super-clueless
>> and nobody else needs an explanation, but I sure do.
>>
>> -- Tom
>>
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