[PW] Re: Honi soit ...

[Sylvia Milne]

I had always thought that it was translated as "Honey, your silk stocking is 
hanging down!"
Source " 1066 and All That: A Memorable History of England", by  by W.C. 
Sellar and R.J. Yeatman

 However the official website of the British Monarchy says:
"King Edward III (r. 1327-1377) instituted the Most Noble Order of the 
Garter in 1348. He and the Black Prince (Edward's eldest son and Prince of 
Wales) were the first members of the Order, which is now over 650 years old. 
It is symbolised by a blue garter. The garter supposedly had its origins at 
a ball in northern France, attended by the king and a certain Joan, Countess 
of Salisbury.

The story goes that the Countess dropped her garter, causing much mirth and 
embarrassment, whereby the king, in a great act of chivalry, picked it up, 
bound it round his own leg, and uttered the immortal phrase 'Honi Soit Qui 
Mal Y Pense', now the motto of the order, and which, translated, means 'Evil 
be unto him who thinks evil'."

Sylvia Milne

Please visit me at
http://www.sylviamilne.btinternet.co.uk/plucked/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fuller, Thomas (US - Washington D.C.)" <tfuller at DELOITTE.com>
To: <list at project-wombat.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: [PW] Honi soit ...


> Since this has come up, and since we're laboring through the summer
> sleepies, can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the Garter's motto,
> "Honi soit qui mal y pense"?  Most reference books just translate it
> ("Shamed be he who thinks evil of it") and retell the story of Edward
> III picking up the Countess of Salisbury's fallen garter, as if that
> explains the whole thing.
>
> It never has, to me.  Why would anybody think evil of it?  Because of
> the accidental revealing of an undergarment?  And where's the shame,
> really, in a few snickers at a stocking?  Why should Edward tying the
> garter on his sleeve fix anything, assuming something needed fixing?
> And why should the garter, and the motto, then become attached to the
> most elevated order of British knighthood?  Who would think evil of such
> a badge, even if it started out as something embarrassing?  "Dont tread
> on me", I get.  "Liberte, egalite, fraternite", I get.  Shame on the
> garter, I don't get.
>
> I've never seen anyone really explain this.  Maybe I'm super-clueless
> and nobody else needs an explanation, but I sure do.
>