[PW] Re: Honi soit ...

[swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com]

Actually, the translations I am seeing do not use "evil," but rather "shame", such as in this one: Shame upon whoso thinks ill of this - Joseph T. Shipley, Dictionary of Word Origins,, 2nd ed. (New York: Philosophical Library, 1945) 164
   
  The following notation shows that the story appears as legend and may very well not have happened.
   
    Garter, Order of the. The Order of the Garter, the preeminent order of English CHIVALRY, was instituted sometime in the mid-fourteenth century, the height of chivalry as typified by EDWARD III and EDWARD THE BLACK PRINCE. Since all original records of the order before 1416 have disappeared, finding the exact date is a matter of inference. The most reasonable time span ranges from 1344 to 1351. Perhaps the most reliable information is found in the Wardrobe accounts for September 1347 and January 1349 (21 and 23 Edward III). 
   
  The evidence mentions issuing certain habits, including garters with an embroidered St. George’s Day motto. Letters patent ordering the preparation of the Royal Chapel at Windsor on St. George’s Day date from August 1348, and for November the Prince of WALES’ treasury accounts mention a gift of “twenty-four garters to the knights of the Society of the Garter.” The reason for the society’s founding has produced a similar amount of confusion. 
   
  One version of the best-known story concerns the countess of Salisbury (or perhaps Katherine Montacute or JOAN THE FAIR MAID OF KENT) who lost a garter at a ball. She is supposed to have said, “Honi soit qui mal y pense” (Shame to him who thinks ill of this). Another version puts the words into Edward’s mouth and has him reproving the general company for levity. The military origin (as opposed to the amorous beginning) has been traced to Richard I’s use of a garter at the sieges of Cyprus and Acré to encourage his men. Edward himself used a garter as a signal to his men at the BATTLE OF CRÉCY in 1346. 
   

    Ronald H. Fritze, and William B. Robison, eds., Historical Dictionary of Late Medieval England, 1272-1485 (Westport, CT: Greenwood Press, 2002) 220



"Fuller, Thomas (US - Washington D.C.)" <tfuller at DELOITTE.com> wrote:  Since this has come up, and since we're laboring through the summer
sleepies, can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the Garter's motto,
"Honi soit qui mal y pense"? Most reference books just translate it
("Shamed be he who thinks evil of it") and retell the story of Edward
III picking up the Countess of Salisbury's fallen garter, as if that
explains the whole thing. 

It never has, to me. Why would anybody think evil of it? Because of
the accidental revealing of an undergarment? And where's the shame,
really, in a few snickers at a stocking? Why should Edward tying the
garter on his sleeve fix anything, assuming something needed fixing?
And why should the garter, and the motto, then become attached to the
most elevated order of British knighthood? Who would think evil of such
a badge, even if it started out as something embarrassing? "Dont tread
on me", I get. "Liberte, egalite, fraternite", I get. Shame on the
garter, I don't get.

I've never seen anyone really explain this. Maybe I'm super-clueless
and nobody else needs an explanation, but I sure do.

-- Tom 

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