[PW] Iroquois quote

ADSGarson O'Toole adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com
Sun Sep 26 13:42:25 PDT 2021


Excellent work, Dennis. Following your lead I located an edition of
Timberlake's memoirs in the Internet Archive. Here is more about the
prominence of women in Cherokee society from Timberlake's perspective
(with a link). This passage expands on the short quotation in the
excerpt you provided.

I did not see the phrase "Where are your women?" or "Where are the
women?" in the Timberlake memoirs during a quick search. That phrase
may be in a separate document based on Attakullakulla's perspective.

Year: 1765 (MDCCLXV)
Book Title: The Memoirs of Lieut. Henry Timberlake (Who accompanied
the Three Cherokee Indians to England in the year 1762)
Quote Page 70
Publication Note: Printed for the author and sold by J. Ridley, London

https://archive.org/details/memoirsoflieuthe00timb/page/70/mode/1up

[Begin excerpt]
These chiefs, or headmen, likewise compose the assemblies of the
nation, into which the war-women are admitted. The reader will not be
a little surprised to find the story of Amazons not so great a fable
as we imagined, many of the Indian women being as famous in war, as
powerful in the council.
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 10:23 AM d-lien University of Minnesota
<d-lien at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> Your snippet is quoted on p.106 of the chapter you cite; it is footnoted to
> Awiakta, Marilou.  "Amazons in Appalachia" in a 1997 anthology,
> REINVENTING THE ENEMY'S LANGUAGE: CONTEMPORARY NATIVE WOMEN'S WRITING
> OF NORTH AMERICA,
> ed. Joy Harjo and Gloria Bird:
>
>
> Awiakta tells of the meeting in 1765 between Henry Timberlake and
> Attakullakulla,
> a Cherokee chief, who had met to negotiate a treaty; Attakullakulla's
> initial question to the delegation of whites-"Where are your women?"
> -was in- comprehensible to them, since the lack of women in their
> delegation seemed irrelevant; to the Cherokee the absence of women
> indicated the whites' lack of respect and their lack of a centering force.
> Timberlake's memoirs note with amazement that the chief had brought
> women in his delegation, "as famous in war as powerful in the
> council" (Awiakta 471)
>
>
> Dennis Lien // (retired from) U of Minnesota Libraries // d-lien at umn.edu
>
> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 10:02 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I did not see any direct matches for the Benjamin Franklin / Iroquois
> > incident during a preliminary search.
> >
> > Here is a thematic match within a 1989 article. The key phrase in this
> > piece is “Where are your women?” The Cherokees are the pertinent
> > Native American group.
> >
> > Date: September 1989
> > Periodical: Sojourner
> > Volume 15, Issue 1
> > Article: Culture and Gender in Indian America
> > Author: Rayna Green
> > Start Page 20, Quote Page 21 and 22
> > Database: JSTOR Reveal Digital Open Access
> >
> > https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28044995
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > In 1642, a group of British got off a boat in Virginia somewhere and
> > migrated to what we call North Carolina; and there they met a
> > delegation of Cherokees, led by a man who had been a warrior. His name
> > was Outacitty, which means mankiller. He was a great warrior, a red
> > chief, sent by the Beloved Woman and the clan-mothers to make war. But
> > this time they had asked him not to make war. The Beloved Woman of the
> > Nation, Ghigau had asked him to become a white chief, a peace chief,
> > and to go and make peace with these people. And so Outacitty rode up
> > to meet them. The first thing he said to them was, “Where are your
> > women?” These men had come to do serious business, and they had no
> > women with them. Peace is a very serious business. No act of war, no
> > act of peace in my country is made without the women there. And
> > Outacitty was shocked: the British dared to come without their women.
> > “Where are your women?” he said. And he went back and reported that
> > there was a problem here. “We cannot do business with these men,” he
> > said. They were clearly missing half of the people needed to do
> > business with.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Below is another thematic match in JSTOR. I cannot  access this book
> > chapter, so I cannot provide a longer excerpt. The key phrase is
> > “Where are your women?”, but the year of the event might be
> > different.
> >
> > Year: 2001 Copyright
> > Book Title: Available Means: An Anthology Of Women'S Rhetoric(s)
> > Editors: Joy Ritchie and Kate Ronald
> > Series: Pittsburgh Series in Composition, Literacy, and Culture
> >
> > Published by: University of Pittsburgh Press
> > Chapter: “Cherokee Women Address Their Nation” (1817)
> >
> > https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt5hjqnj
> >
> > [Begin snippet excerpt]
> > ...of the meeting in 1765 between Henry Timberlake and Attakullakulla,
> > a Cherokee chief, who had met to negotiate a treaty; Attakullakulla's
> > initial question to the delegation of whites-"Where are your women?"
> > -was in- comprehensible to them, since the lack of women in their
> > delegation seemed irrelevant...
> > [End snippet excerpt]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 5:37 PM David Haynes <davhaynes at juno.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Joeys,
> > >
> > > In 'My Life on the Road' Gloria Steinem wrote that during the Constitutional Convention Franklin advocated for a federal system similar to the Iroquois Confederation and
> > >
> > > "That’s why he invited two Iroquois men to Philadelphia as advisers. Among their first questions was said to be: Where are the women?”
> > >
> > > I have been unable to find a source for this quote about women and would be delighted if someone could point me to it. Thanks. Happy trails, David
> > >
> > > David Haynes    davhaynes at Juno.com    San Antonio
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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