[PW] Martin Luther quotation

Perisho, Steve sperisho at spu.edu
Wed Mar 25 21:49:35 PDT 2020


One more comment before I sign off for the evening.  I've been working much more intensely than this on another supposedly "Luther" quote just this week and the last for a colleague in Atla, but have come to the conclusion that it was first at best somebody's summary or paraphrase of Luther's thought (containing a few genuine FRAGMENTS) that later got taken for (and was then forever after cited as) a quotation (though I haven't yet proved that).  The CLASSIC example of this is this one, from an entry in my blog dated 19 July 2008, but which an Atla colleague was the one to track to source---in an obscure 19th-century NOVEL:

https://liberlocorumcommunium.blogspot.com/2008/07/luther-on-importance-of-jumping-in.html 

Steve Perisho
Theology and Philosophy Librarian
Seattle Pacific University

Email:  sperisho at spu.edu; Tel.:  206 281 2417
Commonplace book:  http://liberlocorumcommunium.blogspot.com/


-----Original Message-----
From: Perisho, Steve 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:34 PM
To: list at project-wombat.org; EHelmrich at iona.edu; Bristol Library <bplref at gmail.com>
Subject: Martin Luther quotation

It's pretty unlikely that you'll uncover a proper citation in popular titles like those.  I'd be willing to bet money on the prediction that they do no better than anybody else has been doing since 1888 at the very least.  What you hope for in searches like these, apart from searching a reliable edition of the Works (or Werke (original language)) and such, is to turn your quote up in something scholarly, indeed specialized (as in, for example, Reformation studies).  Pearson (1888) was probably, as I've said, a hostile witness, but in any case no specialist, and so it has gone ever since.  I've just run searches on several small but characteristic fragments in JSTOR and the Atla Religion Database, but without turning anything (other than Eastman, who is present in Google) up.  So the full-text scholarship present in those two databases did not avail itself of it, whereas the vast bulk (if not all) of what you find via Google or The Hathi Trust is either popular or out of a relevant specialization (unspecialized).

Steve Perisho
Theology and Philosophy Librarian
Seattle Pacific University

Email:  sperisho at spu.edu; Tel.:  206 281 2417 Commonplace book:  http://liberlocorumcommunium.blogspot.com/ 



-----Original Message-----
From: Project-wombat <project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org> On Behalf Of Bristol Library
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 7:51 AM
To: Stumpers <list at project-wombat.org>; EHelmrich at iona.edu
Subject: Re: [PW] Martin Luther quotation

Hi, Ed,
Thank you so much for your efforts!  I had found that citation and have been trying to find a physical copy of the book, but it seems that most places holding it are closed at the moment.  I though I had hit the jackpot when Enoch Pratt Free Library offered online librarian chat, but the librarian was working from home and didn't have access to the physical volume.  That may have to wait until the pandemic subsides.

Again, thank you!

Jeannne

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:04 AM Helmrich, Ed <EHelmrich at iona.edu> wrote:

> According to google this quote is quoted in chapter 1 of:
>
> 'Breaking through the stained glass ceiling" by Beth Jones, and it is 
> footnotedd (footnote number 8) but I can't get to the footnote.
>
> It is also quoted with footnote 29 in:
>
> "Free to serve: God's liberated woman" by Jennifer Wallace.
>
> I got these two by searching for the quote's first line in google,
>
> Ed Helmrich
> Interlibrary Loan Office
> Ryan Library
> Iona College - VXI
> 715 North Ave.
> New Rochelle, NY 10801
> 914-633-2352
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Project-Wombat-Open <
> project-wombat-open-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org> on behalf of 
> Bristol Library <bplref at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 1:37 PM
> To: Stumpers <list at project-wombat.org>
> Subject: [PW] Martin Luther quotation
>
> I have a patron who wants to cite a quote purportedly from Martin Luther.
> I can find it mentioned all over (with variations in wording) and 
> attributed to Luther but with no citation as to source.  The quotation 
> is as follows:
>
>
> Woman must neither begin nor complete anything without man: Where he 
> is, there she must be, and bend before him as before a master, whom 
> she shall fear and to whom she shall be subject and obedient.
>
> Any ideas?  I've been trying to search through some of the works but 
> man, there are a LOT of works!
>
> Thanks for any leads!
>
> Jeanne
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> Bristol Public Library
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See what we're reading now:
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