[PW] Re: How to research "where is this joke from"

[Dennis Lien]

At 01:25 PM 10/20/2006, you wrote:
>On 10/20/06, Condell, Joan <joan.condell at dallascityhall.com> wrote:
>
> > How does one research the question "where is this joke from?"  Are there
> > any reference works on jokes or humorous stories that might help?  Is it
> > even possible to definitively answer a question like this?
>
>Most jokes are part of the folk process, and remain untraceable.
>Unless the "joke" is really a retelling of an original incident from a
>published piece of fiction, you're out of luck. Paging Snopes!
>
>--
>Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey


True, of course.  I do find that having read and reread all of Bennet
Cerf's collections as a kid (back when I had a retentive memory) has
stood me in reasonable stead as I can often say "well, it goes back
at least to 19xx because I recall Cerf used it..."

And there's this very strange source book I stumbled across a few years
ago which might be invaluable for this sort of thing if the author had done
forty or fifty volumes worth instead of this one:

Title            Radio comedy diary : a researcher's guide to the actual 
jokes and quotes of the top comedy programs of 1947-1950 / Gary Poole.
Published       Jefferson, N.C. : McFarland, c2001.
Description     vii, 212 p. ; 23 cm.
Summary         "This book is a real find - for those who enjoy radio 
nostalgia but more importantly for scholars of broadcasting. From 1947 to 
1950, while listening to such voices as Bob Hope, Red Skelton, Milton 
Berle, Jack Benny, Fred Allen, and Jimmy Durante, and shows like Fibber 
McGee & Molly, Amos 'n' Andy, Blondie, and You Bet Your Life, the author 
was writing down gags and quotations. He filled 11 spiral notebooks - and 
fifty years later transcribed his notes into this invaluable (in fact, 
unique) record of a boom time in American radio." "This is an unexpected 
treasure for radio scholars, who have long lamented the paucity of 
recordings. Television researchers as well will benefit: Here are the root 
sources of television comedy." "A notes and comments section includes 
background material on all the radio programs in this book."--BOOK JACKET.
Note    Includes index.
Subject LC      American wit and humor.
         Radio programs -- United States.
Contributor     Poole, Gary.
ISBN    0786409681


(Of course, most of the jokes on those 1947-50 shows weren't really original
either, or at best were variant versions of early wheezes.)

Many years ago in grad school I read the SATYRICON of Petronius for the first
time and was charmed to recognize in that first century C.E. piece the original
of my very favorite modern bawdy Travelling Salesman and Farmer's Daughter 
joke.
(In SATYRICON it's tutor and employer's son instead, but the build up and
punchline are exactly the same.  And Petronious probably didn't invent it
either.)

This guide might have some pointers:

Author          Nilsen, Don Lee Fred.
Title           Humor scholarship : a research bibliography / Don L.F. Nilsen.
Published       Westport, Conn. : Greenwood Press, 1993.
Description     x, 382 p. ; 24 cm.
Series          ( Bibliographies and indexes in popular culture, 1066-0658 
; no. 1)
Note    Includes index.
Note    The "Appendix, Humour Resources" (p. [315]-331) lists journals, 
newsletters, organizations, and courses in humour.
Subject LC      Wit and humor -- History and criticism -- Bibliography.
ISBN    0313284415

Dennis Lien / U of Minnesota Libraries // d-lien at umn.edu