From jfranklin at project-wombat.org Fri Jan 20 01:56:07 2006 From: jfranklin at project-wombat.org (John Franklin) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 03:56:07 -0600 Subject: [PW-FM] Opening Message Message-ID: <40203738-E529-41BB-8802-DC00B3E61C9D@project-wombat.org> *Ahem* It would appear that the lists have all been properly configured. This is the final test message, which will actually go out to the list. (Since there aren't any other subscribers yet, that isn't the big deal yet. But since this is the culmination of several weeks of effort, I think it's fair to allow myself a small fanfare.) For those of you tuning in late, welcome to Project Wombat! By now, you have probably read the documentation, but just in case it can't hurt to reiterate the basic information: --> The Project Wombat web site, which has all the information you might want, is at http://www.project-wombat.org/ --> If you send a message to Project Wombat, you are implicitly agreeing to the Project Wombat Terms and Conditions, for which see http://www.project-wombat.org/legal.shtml --> To send a message to the list, use the address list at project-wombat.org --> The list will automatically reject messages which have attachments, are base64-encoded, or use formatted text. (Keep in mind that some e-mail clients will include attachments without telling you in order to implement formatted text, which may lead to peculiar error messages.) For instructions on how to turn off formatted text in many e-mail clients, see http://www.expita.com/nomime.html --> Those of you who were subscribed to the Stumpers list should probably look at the FAQ for Ex-Stumpers Subscribers on the website. Those of you who are not old hands at Stumpers should probably expect a lot of in-jokes. --> There are three varieties of the list. We are hoping that either we can patch Mailman or that the next version of Mailman has a new feature to help with this issue, but -- right now, your posts will go through immediately on the variety of the list to which you subscribe. On the other varieties, it will be treated as a message from a non-subscriber (i.e. it will wait for moderator approval). If you wish, you can use the web interface to subscribe to both the Open list and the regular list, then turn off mail on one of the two subscriptions, which will cause your messages to be automatically accepted on both lists. (The FM list always requires moderator approval.) I will be tinkering with a few settings here and there as time passes. For the most part, however, I think things are ready to go. (This message is my final test.) So... testing, testing, 1, 2, 3... John Franklin Project Wombat Moderator, Board Chairman, Webmaster, and Insomniac P.S. If all goes well, we will eventually import the old archives from the Stumpers list, in which case this will no longer be the first message in the archives -- it will be an amusing fossil, I hope. From gregmahoney32 at comcast.net Fri Jan 20 17:20:27 2006 From: gregmahoney32 at comcast.net (Greg Mahoney) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:20:27 -0600 Subject: [PW] Address of postcard publisher Message-ID: <43D18C5A.6B3DFD65@comcast.net> I'm looking for the current address of a picture postcard publishng firm known as Max Rigot Selling Co, Based in Chicago, this firm published picture postcards in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. I would like to contact this firm if it is still in business. The only address I could find by Googling is 37 S. Wabash in Chicago, but a letter I sent there was returned with "address correction requested." Greg Mahoney Lombard, IL From karen.weiss2 at verizon.net Fri Jan 20 19:21:42 2006 From: karen.weiss2 at verizon.net (Karen Weiss) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:21:42 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Address of postcard publisher In-Reply-To: <43D18C5A.6B3DFD65@comcast.net> References: <43D18C5A.6B3DFD65@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9931ce2ed9f2a99af628dccad18140da@verizon.net> On Reference USA I tried various combinations of the company name and then yellow page headings. The only company I could find in Chicago under Post Cards-Manufacturers, Post Cards-Retail, and Post Cards-Wholesale was Superior International Trading, 2801 S. Hillock Ave., Chicago, IL 60608-5411, telephone (312) 666-8568. The President is Kin Cheung. Fax: (312)791-0855; Toll free number: (866) 392-1628. The other company in Illinois is James M. Coles Postcards, 106 Ussery St., Anna, IL 62906-1555, telephone (618) 833-4788. Owner is James M. Koles. I checked Maloneys Online and found two postcard dealers in Illinois. They might have some information for you. There are also post card clubs listed. Card Source Roger Harvey 170 Selwyn Lane Buffalo Grove, IL 60089-4333 847-520-8145 847-520-8145 (Fax) RHarvey at thepostcard.com http://www.thepostcard.com Deals in antique, collectible and modern postcards; established the first postcard shop on the Internet/World Wide Web; also buys, sells, appraises and auctions postcards. Jim Mehrer's Postal History Jim Mehrer 2405 - 30th Street Rock Island, IL 61201 309-786-6539 309-786-4840 (Fax) mehrer at postal-history.com http://www.postal-history.com Dealer, auctioneer conducts six postal history mail bid sales per year, each containing 3,000+ lots; also postcards, reference literature, collectors' supplies and more; website has dealers and show calendar sections. Karen Weiss On Jan 20, 2006, at 5:20 PM, Greg Mahoney wrote: > > I'm looking for the current address of a picture postcard publishng > firm > known as Max Rigot Selling Co, Based in Chicago, this firm published > picture > postcards in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. I would like to contact this > firm if it is still in business. The only address I could find by > Googling is 37 S. Wabash > in Chicago, but a letter I sent there was returned with "address > correction requested." > > Greg Mahoney > Lombard, IL > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > From dsgood at iphouse.com Fri Jan 20 19:54:59 2006 From: dsgood at iphouse.com (Dan Goodman) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:54:59 -0600 Subject: [PW] When did Dutch stop being spoken in New York State? Message-ID: <43D1B093.1000506@iphouse.com> More precisely: Dutch as spoken by descendants of the early settlers. Presumably there were immigrants from the Netherlands and Belgium later on who spoke it. -- Dan Goodman All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies. John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician. Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com Clutterers Anonymous unofficial community http://www.livejournal.com/community/clutterers_anon/ Decluttering http://decluttering.blogspot.com Predictions and Politics http://dsgood.blogspot.com From jfranklin at project-wombat.org Fri Jan 20 21:37:36 2006 From: jfranklin at project-wombat.org (John Franklin) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:37:36 -0600 Subject: [PW] Slight change for Open and FM lists Message-ID: <7AD60ED6-5056-49BB-B9EE-BDA669F83B93@project-wombat.org> I just realized that having different prefixes for the different lists leads to a situation where the length of the subject line can get longer as people bat a subject around. So I have now changed the settings on all three lists to have a common prefix, [PW]. I have also turned off the "your post is being held for review by a moderator" messages for all three lists, since they are, under the circumstances, somewhat misleading. An explanation of a current problem: Mailman 2.1.7 (the version we currently use) cannot treat a named list as a person. (That is, I can't tell it "give Project-Wombat posting privileges on Project- Wombat-Open", I can only add individuals one at a time.) So although I will be doing my best to add cross-posting privileges, some messages are going to be held up here and there temporarily. Since there are now going to be multiple moderators, this won't be the issue that it would have been on Stumpers, but it's still a nuisance. I have come up with a potential solution -- we can write a program to copy the subscribers from PW and PW-FM into PW-Open's list of instantly accepted senders. I have asked our technical person if this will be allowed, since it's ultimately his decision. If that is done, then periodically everyone will be mushed into the Open list. (Please note: the "Open" list will probably never get automatic posting privileges to the regular list. Doing so would make it too difficult to keep the Guidelines going, which would make the whole idea of the Open list useless.) I will be doing some more tuning on the settings and web pages for a while. Oh, and there will be some photos of wombats on the site. I just need some time to recover from the lack-of-sleep. -John Franklin From swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com Sat Jan 21 15:50:37 2006 From: swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com (swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:50:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: ?The plot thickens In-Reply-To: <25a.584a41d.31041d74@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060121235037.377.qmail@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Could not locate it in Brewers (1981), but did find this from 1750. It may not be first use, but can at least set the era to start looking at: "In this buzz is all the world at present: as the plot thickens or opens, you shall hear more. In the mean time" - Paget Toynbee, and Horace Walpole, The Letters of Horace Walpole, Earl of Oxford: Fourth Earl of Orford, ed. Helen Wrigley, vol. 3 (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1750) 217 --- AllenAmet at aol.com wrote: > Hi, (second (or so) attempt) > > ? ? I was reading a 1913 document recently and > noticed the phrase? > "the plot thickens" in its traditional (and modern) > meaning -? > perhaps borrowed from something "setting" - like > Jello, porridge, or plaster? > > ? Does any one know the first use of this particular > term, and in? > what context? No doubt a mystery, right? > > ?? Thanks!? And appreciation to JF for raising the > List.... > > Allen K. > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > ..................... "Life is just one damned thing after another" -Elbert Hubbard 1856?1915 The Philistine (Dec. 1909) Sue Watkins National Genealogical Society/ Association of Professional Genealogists From AllenAmet at aol.com Sat Jan 21 15:27:48 2006 From: AllenAmet at aol.com (AllenAmet at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:27:48 EST Subject: [PW] ?The plot thickens Message-ID: <25a.584a41d.31041d74@aol.com> Hi, (second (or so) attempt) ? ? I was reading a 1913 document recently and noticed the phrase? "the plot thickens" in its traditional (and modern) meaning -? perhaps borrowed from something "setting" - like Jello, porridge, or plaster? ? Does any one know the first use of this particular term, and in? what context? No doubt a mystery, right? ?? Thanks!? And appreciation to JF for raising the List.... Allen K. From gbnewby at pglaf.org Sat Jan 21 15:54:20 2006 From: gbnewby at pglaf.org (Greg Newby) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:54:20 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Vote of thanks In-Reply-To: <92AE0948-CCDB-4622-BD38-BF2F67CE938D@project-wombat.org> References: <5199271.1137796815581.JavaMail.lumadmin@my.pcc.edu> <92AE0948-CCDB-4622-BD38-BF2F67CE938D@project-wombat.org> Message-ID: <20060121235420.GB24417@pglaf.org> On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 05:18:52PM -0600, John Franklin wrote: > On Jan 20, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Robin Shapiro wrote: > > > Hear, hear! Thank you, John -- this is above and beyond the call, and > > very much appreciated. Thanks to Michael and Project Gutenberg as > > well! > > Just a note: the person at Project Gutenberg who has been my contact, > who did all the technical work, and who was extremely nice, to boot, > was Greg Newby. Any time I asked for something, he did it. (The sole > exception was a semi-request for a patch to be applied to Mailman. > But there were good technical reasons not to do that.) Greetings, fellow travelers. Actually, I just applied that patch.....it looked originally like it has already been included in Mailman 2.1.7, but I now see it wasn't. Welcome, everyone. The server we're putting the Wombat lists on is aliased as "lists.project-wombat.org", but it's canonical name is "readingroo.ms." We're building a sort of meta-collection of freely redistributable content, within the philosophy of Project Gutenberg. The Wombat lists are some of the first items to be available there! If you'd like to track Project Gutenberg, subscribe to the weekly or monthly mailing lists here: http://lists.pglaf.org > I'm not actually sure whether Mr. Hart even knows we're here, since > he has never e-mailed me about it. (On the other hand, he will know > sooner or later -- I sent out a message to everyone who used to be > subscribed to Stumpers.) Michael is enthusiastic about having the list on a Gutenberg server, but I hadn't told him it's actually running. Again, welcome!! -- Greg Dr. Gregory B. Newby Chief Executive and Director Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation http://gutenberg.net A 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization with EIN 64-6221541 gbnewby at pglaf.org From fred.shapiro at yale.edu Sat Jan 21 04:21:39 2006 From: fred.shapiro at yale.edu (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:21:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PW] ? Precursor of Churchill Quote (Quotation Query #619) Message-ID: THANKS TO JOHN FRANKLIN FOR THE INCREDIBLE SERVICE HE HAS PERFORMED IN KEEPING STUMPERS/WOMBAT ALIVE! A posting on alt.usage.english states the following: "More on Churchill's oratory. The book's in a box, so I can't give a reference or a quotation, but the 'so many to so few' line is very similar to one in Robert Graves's _Count Belisarius_ (1938)." I assume "so many to so few" here refers to "never in the field of human conflict have so many owed so much to so few." Is anyone able to track down the specifics of the Robert Graves line referred to above? Fred Shapiro From fred.shapiro at yale.edu Sat Jan 21 16:11:33 2006 From: fred.shapiro at yale.edu (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:11:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PW] Re: ?The plot thickens In-Reply-To: <25a.584a41d.31041d74@aol.com> References: <25a.584a41d.31041d74@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, AllenAmet at aol.com wrote: > ? Does any one know the first use of this particular term, and in? > what context? No doubt a mystery, right? Ay, now the plot thickens very much upon us. George Villiers, 2nd Duke of Buckingham, _The Rehearsal_ (1672) act 3, sc. 2 Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hammerquill at earthlink.net Sat Jan 21 19:10:18 2006 From: hammerquill at earthlink.net (Reed C Bowman) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:10:18 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: ? Precursor of Churchill Quote (Quotation Query #619) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D2F79A.8070503@earthlink.net> Fred Shapiro wrote: >THANKS TO JOHN FRANKLIN FOR THE INCREDIBLE SERVICE HE HAS PERFORMED IN >KEEPING STUMPERS/WOMBAT ALIVE! > > >A posting on alt.usage.english states the following: > >"More on Churchill's oratory. The book's in a box, so I can't give a >reference or a quotation, but the 'so many to so few' line is very >similar to one in Robert Graves's _Count Belisarius_ (1938)." > >I assume "so many to so few" here refers to "never in the field of human >conflict have so many owed so much to so few." Is anyone able to track >down the specifics of the Robert Graves line referred to above? > >Fred Shapiro > >_______________________________________________ >Project Wombat >list at project-wombat.org >http://www.project-wombat.org/ > > > Just can't keep from getting in those last few modifications, eh, Fred? As it happens, I'm in the middle of reading _Count Belisarius_ right now. It's been going very slowly, since I have very little time for reading on paper, and am reading three or four books that're more immediately engaging, besides. You looking for an answer to this PDQ or will looking for it as I read the rest over the next month or three be good enough? RCB From fred.shapiro at yale.edu Sun Jan 22 06:57:29 2006 From: fred.shapiro at yale.edu (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:57:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PW] ? Capote Reference (Quotation Query #620) Message-ID: I haven't seen the movie _Capote_, but apparently it ends with the line "More tears are shed over answered prayers than unanswered ones." I am told that the film does not give an attribution for this, but that the introduction to Capote's _Complete Stories_ indicates that he got it from St. Teresa of Avila. I have not come across the St. Teresa of Avila attribution before (the more usual attribution for the thought is Oscar Wilde's "When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers"). Is anyone able to provide more details for the attribution to St. Teresa of Avila? Fred Shapiro From facerri at twmi.rr.com Sun Jan 22 09:00:16 2006 From: facerri at twmi.rr.com (Fred Acerri) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:00:16 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: ? Capote Reference (Quotation Query #620) References: Message-ID: <000f01c61f75$528d8980$957b1d41@ccusajeb0pjt0f> This site attributes it to Teresa of Avila http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/s/saintteres153909.html Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: [PW] ? Capote Reference (Quotation Query #620) > > I haven't seen the movie _Capote_, but apparently it ends with the line > "More tears are shed over answered prayers than unanswered ones." I am > told that the film does not give an attribution for this, but that the > introduction to Capote's _Complete Stories_ indicates that he got it from > St. Teresa of Avila. I have not come across the St. Teresa of Avila > attribution before (the more usual attribution for the thought is Oscar > Wilde's "When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers"). Is > anyone able to provide more details for the attribution to St. Teresa of > Avila? > > Fred Shapiro > > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From Dean706 at aol.com Sun Jan 22 12:02:09 2006 From: Dean706 at aol.com (Dean706 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:02:09 EST Subject: [PW] lucia popp death Message-ID: <2a2.43a30e1.31053ec1@aol.com> I'm trying to nail down the cause of opera singer Lucia Popp's death. The usual sources aren't helping. thanks, Dean Niles From Dean706 at aol.com Sun Jan 22 12:22:07 2006 From: Dean706 at aol.com (Dean706 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:22:07 EST Subject: [PW] lucia popp death Message-ID: <2d1.20f1019.3105436f@aol.com> I'm trying to nail down the cause of opera singer Lucia Popp's death. The usual sources aren't helping. thanks, Dean Niles From sylviamilne at btopenworld.com Sun Jan 22 12:24:20 2006 From: sylviamilne at btopenworld.com (Sylvia Milne) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:24:20 -0000 Subject: [PW] Re: lucia popp death References: <2a2.43a30e1.31053ec1@aol.com> Message-ID: <008a01c61f91$d360e720$b2b48256@SMPCM7UZ87S> According to the Encylopaedia Britannica Online http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9112919?&query=handel&ct=eb or http://tinyurl.com/bqjyz Lucia Popp died of a brain tumour. Sylvia Milne Please visit me at http://www.sylviamilne.btinternet.co.uk/plucked/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: [PW] lucia popp death > I'm trying to nail down the cause of opera singer Lucia Popp's death. The > usual sources aren't helping. > thanks, > Dean Niles > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From decatur68 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 22 16:16:28 2006 From: decatur68 at earthlink.net (Dayle Irwin) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:16:28 -0600 Subject: [PW] sliced bread Message-ID: <410-22006112301628656@earthlink.net> Hello fellow W0mbats and previous Stumpers. How I have missed you! My question today is for me and came about from research I have been doing on a related topic. The sale of sliced bread was banned during WWII. That is a fact. But I would really like something "official" as to the reason why. I found two reasons in my research--one was to keep down the rising cost of bread. The other was to save the metal used in the slicers for war use. Both of these are good reasons, I suppose, but I would really like to know which is correct. Does anyone out there have access to contemporary Dept. of Ag. bulletins or books or whatever that would give the official reasoning? Sliced bread was evidently not sold commercially until the 1920s. The actual date varies, and this was my original search. According to information I have locally, it was first sold by a baker in Decatur, IL. BUT all the "official" sources give other people credit. This has not yet been resolved to my satisfaction, but I continue the good search. In the meantime, an answer to the ancillary question would do my heart good. Thanks, Dayle Irwin decatur68 at earthlink.net From janicemsj at gmail.com Sun Jan 22 18:26:13 2006 From: janicemsj at gmail.com (Janice Sellers) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:26:13 -0800 Subject: [PW] photocopy request for 1998 article in "Homes & Antiques" Message-ID: I have tried ILL for this and had no luck. Does anyone have access to the December 1998 issue of Homes & Antiques magazine? I am looking for the article about a Georgian Christmas dinner, complete with historical references and recipes. I have also tried going through the publisher, but didn't get anywhere. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you all ahead of time for your help! Janice Sellers -- Janice Sellers (Miss), Publications Coordinator Seismological Society of America 201 Plaza Professional Building El Cerrito, CA 94530 Phone (510) 559-1780 Fax (510) 525-7204 http://www.seismosoc.org/ From betwys1 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 22 20:25:20 2006 From: betwys1 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Whatcott) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:25:20 -0600 Subject: [PW] Re: Points In-Reply-To: <43D40070.8050608@ingerman.org> References: <3d2a5ccc0601221115x7ef040dfm@mail.gmail.com> <43D40070.8050608@ingerman.org> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060122220852.05f067a8@sbcglobal.net> At 04:00 PM 1/22/2006, you wrote: >/// >Nowadays, thanks to computers, there are 72 points to the inch. In the >days of my father's hand-setting type, "everyone" knew that 72 points >was 0.9958 inches. Was there, at some early time, a unit that was >exactly 72 points, and where did it go. (I somehow *don't* think this is >related to the fact that the inch was redefined in 1957 from 2.540004 cm >to exactly 2.54 cm, but I don't *know* that.) > >Peter Ingerman Points were and are a printer's measure. Like other early trade measures, they varied from place to place, and were essentially arbitrary. A U.S. point is 0.01383". Desk top publishing applications made it convenient to approximate the US point to 1/72 inch, last century. A pica is 12 points or (approximately) 1/6th of an inch. The European (Didot) point is equal to 0.0148"; twelve points of this system are called a cicero. Despite the European roots of this version, the Didot point is not a handy sub-multiple of some metric measure - possibly because its use precedes the meter of the Enlightenment. Brian Whatcott Altus OK Eureka! From ebairead at gmail.com Sun Jan 22 11:15:21 2006 From: ebairead at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eoin_C=2E_Bair=E9ad?=) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:15:21 +0000 Subject: [PW] Old English Message-ID: <3d2a5ccc0601221115x7ef040dfm@mail.gmail.com> No - not elderly Brits. This is for Wombats (artistes previously known as Stumpers) with some familiarity with the Anglo-Saxon language. I recently was referred to a collection of riddles in Old English called "The Exeter Riddles", or, more properly, "Old English Riddles from the Exeter Book", and very interesting they were. On the Internet, I found not alone the text of the originals, together with translations into modern English, but also suggested answers to the riddles. I read riddle 42, to which the suggested answer was "a key". Heavens!, I exclaimed, is this guy for real. Then I found that the proposed solution to riddle 43 was "dough". That's when I decided that the editor was not alone not in the race, he wasn't at the races - being, in fact, several thorns short of as ash. But then I remembered a "joke" from my far away youth: What's a 4-letter word, ending in "K", meaning "to have intercourse" ? Answer: TALK. So my two questions are these, please. Were the answers those used by the Anglo Saxons, or put forward at a much later stage. And, in either case, was the sense of humour similar to that long-ago joke. and welcome back everyone! and well done the moderator ! Thanks Eoin -- -- Eoin C. Bair?ad Dublin, Ireland ?th Cliath, ?ire From hammerquill at earthlink.net Sun Jan 22 15:08:48 2006 From: hammerquill at earthlink.net (Reed C Bowman) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:08:48 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Old English In-Reply-To: <3d2a5ccc0601221115x7ef040dfm@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d2a5ccc0601221115x7ef040dfm@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D41080.40303@earthlink.net> Eoin C. Bair?ad wrote: > No - not elderly Brits. > >This is for Wombats (artistes previously known as Stumpers) with some >familiarity with the Anglo-Saxon language. > >I recently was referred to a collection of riddles in Old English called >"The Exeter Riddles", or, more properly, "Old English Riddles from the >Exeter Book", and very interesting they were. > >On the Internet, I found not alone the text of the originals, together with >translations into modern English, but also suggested answers to the riddles. > >I read riddle 42, to which the suggested answer was "a key". >Heavens!, I exclaimed, is this guy for real. > >Then I found that the proposed solution to riddle 43 was "dough". >That's when I decided that the editor was not alone not in the race, he >wasn't at the races - being, in fact, several thorns short of as ash. > >But then I remembered a "joke" from my far away youth: >What's a 4-letter word, ending in "K", meaning "to have intercourse" ? >Answer: TALK. > >So my two questions are these, please. >Were the answers those used by the Anglo Saxons, or put forward at a much >later stage. >And, in either case, was the sense of humour similar to that long-ago joke. > > Or, what is it that men do standing, women do sitting, and dogs do on three legs? Shake hands. Yes, it has a long, long tradition. And in these two cases, the intention is almost certainly a double-entendre. In other cases, the naughty solution seems to be the only one. Of course, the key double-entendre is so utterly universal that it almost goes without saying. Numbering of the riddles is not universal: The two you're talking about are #44 and #45 in the Columbia University edition (Krapp and Dobbie), and I think that's a more common numbering. The standard, clean solutions are those given by nineteenth-century (or somewhat earlier) scholars (except in a few cases where they're more or less explicit and the riddle isn't really a riddle at all, or when there's another version of the riddle in Latin or wherever, with an 'official' solution). These gentlemen were probably quite well aware of the real solutions, or of the intended double-entendres, which I think is the point of these two, as you guessed. But they were working to find solutions suitable for Victorian print, and tended not to mention the - ahem - unmentionable side of the equation. Sometimes, when there is no double-entendre, the Bowdlerists had to do some serious mental acrobatics to come up with anything printable. RCB From jfranklin at project-wombat.org Sun Jan 22 17:37:09 2006 From: jfranklin at project-wombat.org (John Franklin) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:37:09 -0600 Subject: [PW] Archives Message-ID: <9A638892-EF13-4E34-ADFF-221610493684@project-wombat.org> Just a few extra notes on archives, since I'm getting questions about them: --> There is a (very) slight problem with the list archives, which will be resolved over the next few days. The links on the list info pages are wrong -- they give URLs which require logins (i.e. only work for subscribers). Unfortunately, it looks like the patch which lets the Open list immediately get postings from the other lists broke the part of Mailman which lets me update the HTML for the list info pages. (Which, ironically, had been fixed by an earlier patch.) For now, here are the "real" (public) URLs, which do not require logins: http://lists.project-wombat.org/pipermail/project-wombat/ http://lists.project-wombat.org/pipermail/project-wombat-open/ http://lists.project-wombat.org/pipermail/project-wombat-fm/ I will add these to the FAQ for now, and update the list info pages when I am able to do so again. --> Right now, the archives are not searchable. This will change later. (Mailman 2.1.x does not have this feature built in, so we need to use something else; I am kind of thinking of maybe even writing something myself. Then again maybe not.) If it turns out that Mailman 2.2 or 3.0 (whichever is next) adds the feature, then obviously the point is moot. --> We will eventually add the Stumpers archives to the Project Wombat archives, in the "Classic" and -Open lists. (Adding them to the FM list would take a long time, so we probably won't do it.) (Unless our archive editors decide to keep going...) If you want to help with the effort, visit the Project Wombat website and look at the "Volunteer" page. --> It turns out that Mailman 2.x listens to the optional "X-Archive" and "X-No-Archive" headers when it comes to adding messages to the archives. We don't want this -- every message which makes it to the list is going to be kept, regardless of what the sender wants. So I have added a filter to the lists to reject posts which use these headers. If anyone was contemplating using them, sorry, you're out of luck. -John Franklin From swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 01:53:03 2006 From: swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com (swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:53:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: sliced bread In-Reply-To: <410-22006112301628656@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060123095303.91383.qmail@web82110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The official answer may surprise all, for it was neither cost, nor metal. As reported in the Oakland Tribune, Oakland, CA. 7 Aug 1943, reporting from Washington DC. A digital copy of the clipped article is available on request. "...the no sliced bread order was issued by a committee of the Department of Agriculture on recommendation of the baking industry itself after WPB had warned that waxed paper supplies might be insufficient to wrap sliced bread." --- Dayle Irwin wrote: > > Hello fellow W0mbats and previous Stumpers. How I > have missed you! > My question today is for me and came about from > research I have been > doing on a related topic. > The sale of sliced bread was banned during WWII. > That is a fact. But I would > really like something "official" as to the reason > why. I found two reasons in my > research--one was to keep down the rising cost of > bread. The other was to > save the metal used in the slicers for war use. > Both of these are good reasons, I suppose, but I > would really like to know which > is correct. Does anyone out there have access to > contemporary Dept. of Ag. bulletins or books or > whatever that would give the official reasoning? > > Sliced bread was evidently not sold commercially > until the 1920s. The actual date varies, and this > was my original search. According to information I > have locally, it was first sold by a baker in > Decatur, IL. BUT all the "official" sources give > other people credit. This has not yet been > resolved to my satisfaction, but I continue the good > search. In the meantime, an answer to > the ancillary question would do my heart good. > Thanks, > Dayle Irwin > decatur68 at earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > ..................... "Life is just one damned thing after another" -Elbert Hubbard 1856?1915 The Philistine (Dec. 1909) Sue Watkins National Genealogical Society/ Association of Professional Genealogists From MichaelMay.23435907 at bloglines.com Mon Jan 23 06:16:06 2006 From: MichaelMay.23435907 at bloglines.com (MichaelMay.23435907 at bloglines.com) Date: 23 Jan 2006 14:16:06 -0000 Subject: [PW] UK illustrator T. Hamilton Crawford? Message-ID: <1138025766.2123522569.23007.sendItem@bloglines.com> Can anyone help me find brief biographical information on UK illustrator/engraver Thomas [or T.] Hamilton Crawford, born 1860? Examples of his prints appear online, but I cannot find his bio online or in print at my library. Thanks. Michael May Carnegie-Stout Public Library Dubuque, Iowa, US From newsroom-l at netspace.org Mon Jan 23 05:03:48 2006 From: newsroom-l at netspace.org (Newsroom-l) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:03:48 -0600 Subject: [PW] Re: sliced bread In-Reply-To: <43D4CAC5.6010206@netspace.org> References: <20060123095303.91383.qmail@web82110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43D4CAC5.6010206@netspace.org> Message-ID: <43D4D434.90803@netspace.org> Newsroom-l wrote: > At the time, we were told it was because the slicing machines were > needed by the military bases. It seems, however, that was just one of the many rumors picked up by the young and gullible who did not read the New York Times (I was eight years old at the time and living in The Bronx): Sliced Bread Put Back on Sale; Housewives' Thumbs Safe Again; Wickard Rescinds Ban of Jan. 18, Saying Supply of Wax Paper Has Risen and Savings to Bakers Were Scant By The Associated Press.. New York Times (1857-Current File). New York, N.Y.: Mar 9, 1943. pg. 16, 1 pgs Document types: article ISSN/ISBN: 03624331 Text Word Count 364 Document URL: Abstract (Document Summary) WASHINGTON, March 8 -- The government ban on bakery-sliced bread was removed today. Housewives who have risked thumbs and tempers slicing bread at home for nearly two months will find sliced loaves back on the grocery shelves tomorrow in most places. -- JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764, 77501-Cancun, Q. Roo, Mexico http://www.cafecancun.com/bookarts Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists http://www.newsroom-l.net/ From ckump at sf.edu Mon Jan 23 07:42:52 2006 From: ckump at sf.edu (Kump, Cindy) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:42:52 -0500 Subject: [PW] Trojan War/Norse Gods Message-ID: Hello! I had this posted on LiveJournal but I thought that since the list is up and running now I would try again. Thanks, Cindy My patron is looking for a book he read back in 1988-1990. Here is the description he has given me: **************** The subject matter is the dispersal of heroes after the Trojan war. It is a history (or alleged history) of the trek these fellows made northwesterly.. some traveling as far as Norse lands. The author asserts that these wanderers stopped at various locations on their trek, and by comparison to the local inhabitants were rather advanced in their knowledge of science, agriculture, etc., and were as a consequence considered gods by the locals. The author contends that it is this group of emigrants whose knowledge and abilities gave rise to the Norse panoply of gods. **************** My first thought was The Odyssey but that doesn't really fit. He remembers the book being here at USF when he was here 1988 - 1990. I have searched our catalog but the book that he thought sounded closest is missing, so I can't look at the actual book to see if it is the right one. That book is Gods and myths of northern Europe by Hilda Roderick Ellis Davidson. If anyone on the list has this book in their collection, could you look it over and see if it could be the book he is looking for? If it seems promising, he can request an interlibrary loan. Or possibly someone knows of another book that fits this description? It is possible that the book was weeded from our collection in the last 15+ years so it may not even be in our online catalog. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks! Cindy From SUSAN at rochester.lib.mn.us Mon Jan 23 08:02:19 2006 From: SUSAN at rochester.lib.mn.us (SUSAN HANSEN) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:02:19 -0600 Subject: [PW] ? Musical score for Please don't send me fruitcake Message-ID: Looking for the music for "please don't send me fruitcake" by Cherolyn Lane. We have the lyrics. Have checked in our songbook collection. Thanks! Susan Hansen, MA, CIRS, Librarian Rochester Public Library 101 2nd Street SE Rochester MN 55904-3776 susan at rochester.lib.mn.us www.rochesterpubliclibrary.org office phone: 507.285.8002 fax: 507.287.1910 From ulrich at zlb.de Mon Jan 23 09:34:56 2006 From: ulrich at zlb.de (Ulrich, Paul) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:34:56 +0100 Subject: [PW] > UK illustrator T. Hamilton Crawford? References: <1138025766.2123522569.23007.sendItem@bloglines.com> Message-ID: <43D513C0.76915E5B@zlb.de> There is a short biographical entry Crawford, Thomas Hamilton; painter n mssotint and watercolour; b Glasgow; s of John Crawford, Scultpor. Educ Glasgow and Edinburgh. Exhbd at R.A., R.S.A., G.I., Paris Salon. Address 6 Greenway, Berkhampstead. Club Savage. Signs work "T. Hamilton Crawford in: Who's Who in Art: a Series of Alphabetically-Arranged Biographies of the Leading Men and Women in the World of Art To-day (Artists, Collectors, Critics and Curators) / edited by Bernard Dolman. - 3rd ed. - London: Art Trade Press, 1934 I retrieved the information from the British Biographical Index (Saur Publishers in Germany). > > Can anyone help me find brief biographical information on UK illustrator/engraver > > Thomas [or T.] Hamilton Crawford, born 1860? > > Examples of his prints appear > online, but I cannot find his bio online or in print at my library. > > Thanks. > > Michael May > Carnegie-Stout Public Library > Dubuque, Iowa, US > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ -- Paul S. Ulrich -- Informationsdienste / Information Services Zentral- und Landesbibliothek Berlin / Berlin Central and Regional Library Amerika-Gedenkbibliothek / America Memorial Library Bluecherplatz 1 / 10961 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 (30) 90226 149 / Fax: +49 (30) 90226 163 e-mail: ulrich at zlb.de < mailto:ulrich at zlb.de > Bibliotheks- / Library Homepage: http://www.zlb.de/ Linksammlungen / Links: http://linksammlungen.zlb.de/ Veroeffentlichungen / Publications: http://www.zlb.de/aktivitaeten/publikationen/mitarbeiter/ulrich From mstclair at bcls.lib.nj.us Mon Jan 23 10:51:59 2006 From: mstclair at bcls.lib.nj.us (Monica St. Clair) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:51:59 -0500 Subject: [PW] Monkey in the zoo- anyone remember? Message-ID: <43D525CF.9010505@bcls.lib.nj.us> Hello, I am not a member of this list, but am hoping someone can help me with a difficult reference question. The patron is looking for a poem, which I believe may be an old (50+ years) children's poem or song, in which the first line is something to the effect of "The funniest thing I ever saw was the monkey at the zoo." I have tried LitFinder, Google, _The Home Book of Verse_, _A Treasury of Humorous Poetry_, _The Oxford Book of Short Poems_, and _Let's Enjoy Poetry: An Anthology of Children's Verse for Grades 4, 5, and 6_ (1961). In addition, I have asked several of the children's librarians in my system, many of whom think they have heard it before but cannot shed any more light than that. My patron is looking for the full text, and title if possible. Hopefully, someone out there has this in their memory bank. Thanks in advance for any help. Monica St.Clair Readers' Advisory Librarian *Monica St. Clair* Readers? Advisory Librarian Burlington County Library System 5 Pioneer Blvd. Westampton, NJ 08060 (609) 267-9660 x3081 *mstclair at bcls.lib.nj.us* From bmendes at sailsinc.org Mon Jan 23 11:28:52 2006 From: bmendes at sailsinc.org (Bonnie Mendes) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:28:52 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Monkey in the zoo- anyone remember? In-Reply-To: <43D525CF.9010505@bcls.lib.nj.us> References: <43D525CF.9010505@bcls.lib.nj.us> Message-ID: I think you may be looking for a James W. Riley Poem called "The Funniest Thing in the World" http://www.amblesideonline.org/Riley.shtml 16 - The Funniest Thing in the World The funniest thing in the world, I know, Is watchin' the monkeys'at's in the show! Jumpin' an' runnin' an' racin' roun', 'Way up the top o' the pole; nen down! First they're here, an' nen they're there, An' ist a'most any an' ever'where! Screechin' an' scratchin' wherever they go, They're the funniest thing in the world, I know! They're the funniest thing in the world, I think: Funny to watch'em eat an' drink; Funny to watch'em a-watchin' us, An' actin''most like grown folks does! Funny to watch'em p'tend to be Skeerd at their tail'at they happen to see; But the funniest thing in the world they do Is never to laugh, like me an' you! ____________________________________________ Bonnie Mendes, Reference Librarian Somerset Public Library bmendes at sailsinc.org / somersetpl at sailsinc.org 508-646-2829 / 508-646-2830 508-646-2831 (fax) "Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested..." - Francis Bacon 1561 - 1626 -----Original Message----- From: "Monica St. Clair" To: list at project-wombat.org Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:51:59 -0500 Subject: [PW] Monkey in the zoo- anyone remember? > Hello, > > I am not a member of this list, but am hoping someone can help me with > a > difficult reference question. The patron is looking for a poem, which I > believe may be an old (50+ years) children's poem or song, in which the > first line is something to the effect of "The funniest thing I ever saw > was the monkey at the zoo." > > I have tried LitFinder, Google, _The Home Book of Verse_, _A Treasury > of > Humorous Poetry_, _The Oxford Book of Short Poems_, and _Let's Enjoy > Poetry: An Anthology of Children's Verse for Grades 4, 5, and 6_ > (1961). > In addition, I have asked several of the children's librarians in my > system, many of whom think they have heard it before but cannot shed > any > more light than that. > > My patron is looking for the full text, and title if possible. > Hopefully, someone out there has this in their memory bank. > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > Monica St.Clair > Readers' Advisory Librarian > > > *Monica St. Clair* > Readers? Advisory Librarian > > Burlington County Library System > 5 Pioneer Blvd. > Westampton, NJ 08060 > (609) 267-9660 x3081 > *mstclair at bcls.lib.nj.us* > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From redfernshaw at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 12:12:20 2006 From: redfernshaw at yahoo.com (Jocelyn Shaw) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:12:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Question about video Message-ID: <20060123201220.17863.qmail@web34209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, it's so good to be back together! This one is for me (well, for my daughter). Over Christmas we were trying to figure out the name of a movie, probably only released on video, that she watched when she was young (she is 20 now). It was about a child whale who was trying to find Moby Dick. Somewhere during his travels he came across some toxic waste. He didn't like to eat squid at the beginning, but we think by the end he would eat it. I found it particularly dreadful, so threw the thing out as soon as the kids would let me. Anyway, she is curious to know the title. We tried IMDB and Google, but couldn't find anything with the search terms we were using. We are hoping one of you perhaps saw it and remembers it. Thanks a bunch! Jocelyn Jocelyn Shaw, MLIS Documents Librarian, Web Mistress Hackley Public Library 316 W Webster Ave Muskegon MI 49441 jshaw at hackleylibrary.org http://hackleylibrary.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! From peter at prunka.com Mon Jan 23 12:49:35 2006 From: peter at prunka.com (Peter Prunka) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:49:35 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Question about video In-Reply-To: <20060123201220.17863.qmail@web34209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c6205e$854787b0$6801a8c0@Traveler> Jocelyn Shaw wrote: > Hi all, it's so good to be back together! > > This one is for me (well, for my daughter). Over Christmas we were > trying to figure out the name of a movie, probably only released on > video, that she watched when she was young (she is 20 now). It was > about a child whale who was trying to find Moby Dick. Somewhere > during his travels he came across some toxic waste. He didn't like > to eat squid at the beginning, but we think by the end he would eat > it. I found it particularly dreadful, so threw the thing out as soon > as the kids would let me. Anyway, she is curious to know the title. > We tried IMDB and Google, but couldn't find anything with the search > terms we were using. We are hoping one of you perhaps saw it and > remembers it. Thanks a bunch! My daughter, Molly, is also twenty and we watched all nine of these films when she was little. It's "Dot and the Whale" http://www.yoramgross.com.au/yoramgrossemtv/filmtv/fm_dotwhale.html This is a series of excellent children's films. Peter From timothypwee at nlb.gov.sg Mon Jan 23 13:42:10 2006 From: timothypwee at nlb.gov.sg (Timothy PWEE) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 05:42:10 +0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Monkey in the zoo- anyone remember? Message-ID: http://www.alphabet-soup.net/dir7/zoosong.html http://www.hummingbirded.com/farm_zoo_pets.html The Zoo This is the way the elephant goes. (clasp hands together, extend arms, and move them back and forth) With a curly trunk instead of a nose. The buffalo, all shaggy and fat, has two sharp horns in place of a hat. The hippo with his mouth so wide, let's you see what is inside. (hands together and open and close them to simulate mouth movement) The wiggly snake upon the ground, crawls along without a sound. (weave hands back and forth) But monkey see and monkey do, is the funniest animal in the zoo. Slow From rkokelly at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 13:52:25 2006 From: rkokelly at yahoo.com (Kevin O'Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:52:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: card-sized colored advertisements In-Reply-To: <000001c6205e$854787b0$6801a8c0@Traveler> Message-ID: <20060123215225.25314.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> W*mb*ts: I am preparing a finding aid and labels for a collection of ephemera which includes a number of colored-print advertisements, most of them approximately 3 inches vertical and 4 1/2 horizontal, some smaller. They all advertise a local business or product (e.g., Raven Gloss Shoe Dressing, J. Weild, Baker). From the style of the artwork, I assume they were made around the turn of the century. My question is, do these little hand-held advertisements have a name? What does one call them? Many thanks, Kevin --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! From janicemsj at gmail.com Mon Jan 23 13:58:18 2006 From: janicemsj at gmail.com (Janice Sellers) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:58:18 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: card-sized colored advertisements In-Reply-To: <20060123215225.25314.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060123215225.25314.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 1:52 PM -0800 1/23/06, Kevin O'Kelly wrote: >I am preparing a finding aid and labels for a collection of ephemera >which includes a number of colored-print advertisements, most of them >approximately 3 inches vertical and 4 1/2 horizontal, some smaller. They >all advertise a local business or product (e.g., Raven Gloss Shoe >Dressing, J. Weild, Baker). From the style of the artwork, I assume they >were made around the turn of the century. > >My question is, do these little hand-held advertisements have a >name? What does one call them? I have usually heard them called "advertising cards." Janice Sellers Oakland, CA From bmendes at sailsinc.org Mon Jan 23 14:04:04 2006 From: bmendes at sailsinc.org (Bonnie Mendes) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:04:04 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: card-sized colored advertisements In-Reply-To: <20060123215225.25314.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <000001c6205e$854787b0$6801a8c0@Traveler> <20060123215225.25314.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is a good description of "Advertising Cards" in Schoeder's Antiques. It certainly sounds like what you are describing: "[They] enjoyed great popularity during the last quarter of the 19th century...The purpose of the trade card was to acquaint the public with a business, product, service or event. Most trade cards range in size from 2" X 3" to 4" by 6"..." ____________________________________________ Bonnie Mendes, Reference Librarian Somerset Public Library bmendes at sailsinc.org / somersetpl at sailsinc.org 508-646-2829 / 508-646-2830 508-646-2831 (fax) "Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested..." - Francis Bacon 1561 - 1626 -----Original Message----- From: Kevin O'Kelly To: list at project-wombat.org Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:52:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: card-sized colored advertisements > W*mb*ts: > > I am preparing a finding aid and labels for a collection of ephemera > which includes a number of colored-print advertisements, most of them > approximately 3 inches vertical and 4 1/2 horizontal, some smaller. > They > all advertise a local business or product (e.g., Raven Gloss Shoe > Dressing, J. Weild, Baker). From the style of the artwork, I assume > they > were made around the turn of the century. > > My question is, do these little hand-held advertisements have a > name? What does one call them? > > Many thanks, > > Kevin > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover > Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From ecgouwen at srpnet.com Mon Jan 23 14:05:47 2006 From: ecgouwen at srpnet.com (GOUWENS ELIZABETH C (BETH)) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:05:47 -0700 Subject: [PW] etymology of the word 'compliant' Message-ID: <3ED3E3C081068549BB5AF080B9395B1012E73E@EXCV21.srp.gov> I have a patron who is looking for the etymology of the word 'compliant'. I've checked a variety of resources, including several online dictionaries, the Online Etymology Dictionary, www.word-detective.com, www.wordorigins.com, and others. The closest I've come is the etymology of 'comply' and 'pliant'. Any suggestions of other places to look? I'm going to try to check a couple of print resources this evening. Thanks, Beth Elizabeth Gouwens Library Analyst SRP MS: ISB552 1600 N. Priest Dr P: 602.236.5676 Tempe, AZ 85281 F: 602.629.8585 From lwadman at arrowhead.lib.mn.us Mon Jan 23 14:05:20 2006 From: lwadman at arrowhead.lib.mn.us (Linda J. Wadman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:05:20 -0600 Subject: [PW] Re: card-sized colored advertisements In-Reply-To: <20060123215225.25314.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <000001c6205e$854787b0$6801a8c0@Traveler> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060123160348.03ea0b00@mail.arrowhead.lib.mn.us> trade cards? http://www.ephemerasociety.org/examples/ex-trade_cards.html There is a list of various ephemera with examples for many here: http://www.ephemerasociety.org/examples.html At 01:52 PM 1/23/2006 -0800, you wrote: >W*mb*ts: > >I am preparing a finding aid and labels for a collection of ephemera >which includes a number of colored-print advertisements, most of them >approximately 3 inches vertical and 4 1/2 horizontal, some smaller. They >all advertise a local business or product (e.g., Raven Gloss Shoe >Dressing, J. Weild, Baker). From the style of the artwork, I assume they >were made around the turn of the century. > >My question is, do these little hand-held advertisements have a >name? What does one call them? > >Many thanks, > >Kevin > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover > Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! >_______________________________________________ >Project Wombat >list at project-wombat.org >http://www.project-wombat.org/ Linda J. Wadman Director North Country Library Cooperative 5528 Emerald Avenue Mountain Iron, MN 55768 Phone: 218-741-1907 FAX: 218-741-1908 E-mail: lwadman at arrowhead.lib.mn.us From rkokelly at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 14:10:13 2006 From: rkokelly at yahoo.com (Kevin O'Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:10:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: etymology of the word 'compliant' In-Reply-To: <3ED3E3C081068549BB5AF080B9395B1012E73E@EXCV21.srp.gov> Message-ID: <20060123221013.11044.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, its root, "comply" comes from Latin complere, to fulfill. "GOUWENS ELIZABETH C (BETH)" wrote: I have a patron who is looking for the etymology of the word 'compliant'. I've checked a variety of resources, including several online dictionaries, the Online Etymology Dictionary, www.word-detective.com, www.wordorigins.com, and others. The closest I've come is the etymology of 'comply' and 'pliant'. Any suggestions of other places to look? I'm going to try to check a couple of print resources this evening. Thanks, Beth Elizabeth Gouwens Library Analyst SRP MS: ISB552 1600 N. Priest Dr P: 602.236.5676 Tempe, AZ 85281 F: 602.629.8585 _______________________________________________ Project Wombat list at project-wombat.org http://www.project-wombat.org/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. From rkokelly at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 14:13:32 2006 From: rkokelly at yahoo.com (Kevin O'Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:13:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: card-sized colored advertisements In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060123160348.03ea0b00@mail.arrowhead.lib.mn.us> Message-ID: <20060123221332.11720.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks, Linda. "Linda J. Wadman" wrote: trade cards? http://www.ephemerasociety.org/examples/ex-trade_cards.html There is a list of various ephemera with examples for many here: http://www.ephemerasociety.org/examples.html At 01:52 PM 1/23/2006 -0800, you wrote: >W*mb*ts: > >I am preparing a finding aid and labels for a collection of ephemera >which includes a number of colored-print advertisements, most of them >approximately 3 inches vertical and 4 1/2 horizontal, some smaller. They >all advertise a local business or product (e.g., Raven Gloss Shoe >Dressing, J. Weild, Baker). From the style of the artwork, I assume they >were made around the turn of the century. > >My question is, do these little hand-held advertisements have a >name? What does one call them? > >Many thanks, > >Kevin > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Photos ??? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover > Photo Books. You design it and we???ll bind it! >_______________________________________________ >Project Wombat >list at project-wombat.org >http://www.project-wombat.org/ Linda J. Wadman Director North Country Library Cooperative 5528 Emerald Avenue Mountain Iron, MN 55768 Phone: 218-741-1907 FAX: 218-741-1908 E-mail: lwadman at arrowhead.lib.mn.us _______________________________________________ Project Wombat list at project-wombat.org http://www.project-wombat.org/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. From karen.weiss2 at verizon.net Mon Jan 23 14:49:47 2006 From: karen.weiss2 at verizon.net (Karen Weiss) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:49:47 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Trojan War/Norse Gods In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found this in a review of the Edda on Amazon: "Edda was written as a handbook for poets and scholars, to aid in understanding ancient Scandinavian poetry, which was thick with mythological allusions. Edda also provides guidelines for composing new poems using traditional forms. It was written two or three centuries into the Christian era of northern Europe, when old pagan lore was already nearly forgotten. Snorri's book kept his ancestor's cultural heritage from disappearing completely. He treats the old myths very kindly, but is careful to throw in the obligatory Christian warnings about "false religion." According to "Gylfaginning," (the first and most interesting part of the Edda) the Norse gods - the Aesir - were originally a tribe of people who migrated to the North from Turkey. They were veterans of the Trojan War (!) so cultured and technologically advanced that they were regarded as gods by the ignorant folk in the lands they conquered and settled. According to Snorri, most of the mythological stories are analogous to episodes from the Iliad." I got this as a Google cache. I can't seem to locate the review by searching Amazon itself. The search terms I used were trojan war norse gods europe fiction. Now, I'm not saying this is your patron's book, but it is the closest I have come in my search. Karen Weiss On Jan 23, 2006, at 7:42 AM, Kump, Cindy wrote: > Hello! > > > > I had this posted on LiveJournal but I thought that since the list is > up > and running now I would try again. > > > > Thanks, > > Cindy > > > > > > > > My patron is looking for a book he read back in 1988-1990. Here is the > description he has given me: > > > > **************** > > The subject matter is the dispersal of heroes after the Trojan war. It > is a history (or alleged history) of the trek these fellows made > northwesterly.. some traveling as far as Norse lands. > > > > The author asserts that these wanderers stopped at various locations on > their trek, and by comparison to the local inhabitants were rather > advanced in their knowledge of science, agriculture, etc., and were as > a > consequence considered gods by the locals. > > > > The author contends that it is this group of emigrants whose knowledge > and abilities gave rise to the Norse panoply of gods. > > **************** > > > > My first thought was The Odyssey but that doesn't really fit. > > > > He remembers the book being here at USF when he was here 1988 - 1990. I > have searched our catalog but the book that he thought sounded closest > is missing, so I can't look at the actual book to see if it is the > right > one. That book is Gods and myths of northern Europe by Hilda Roderick > Ellis Davidson. > > > > If anyone on the list has this book in their collection, could you look > it over and see if it could be the book he is looking for? If it seems > promising, he can request an interlibrary loan. > > > > Or possibly someone knows of another book that fits this description? > It > is possible that the book was weeded from our collection in the last > 15+ > years so it may not even be in our online catalog. > > > > Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > > Thanks! > > > > Cindy > > > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > From karen.weiss2 at verizon.net Mon Jan 23 15:16:45 2006 From: karen.weiss2 at verizon.net (Karen Weiss) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:16:45 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Trojan War/Norse Gods In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9739616c2f2b4691f07860929c967118@verizon.net> Since I sent the previous message I have found that Gods and Myths of Northern Europe is listed on Amazon and is searchable. I found no reference to Trojans or Trojan. Karen Weiss On Jan 23, 2006, at 2:49 PM, Karen Weiss wrote: > I found this in a review of the Edda on Amazon: > > "Edda was written as a handbook for poets and scholars, to aid in > understanding ancient Scandinavian poetry, which was thick with > mythological allusions. Edda also provides guidelines for composing new > poems using traditional forms. It was written two or three centuries > into the Christian era of northern Europe, when old pagan lore was > already nearly forgotten. Snorri's book kept his ancestor's cultural > heritage from disappearing completely. He treats the old myths very > kindly, but is careful to throw in the obligatory Christian warnings > about "false religion." According to "Gylfaginning," (the first and > most interesting part of the Edda) the Norse gods - the Aesir - were > originally a tribe of people who migrated to the North from Turkey. > They were veterans of the Trojan War (!) so cultured and > technologically advanced that they were regarded as gods by the > ignorant folk in the lands they conquered and settled. According to > Snorri, most of the mythological stories are analogous to episodes from > the Iliad." > > I got this as a Google cache. I can't seem to locate the review by > searching Amazon itself. The search terms I used were trojan war norse > gods europe fiction. > > Now, I'm not saying this is your patron's book, but it is the closest I > have come in my search. > > Karen Weiss > > On Jan 23, 2006, at 7:42 AM, Kump, Cindy wrote: > >> Hello! >> >> >> >> I had this posted on LiveJournal but I thought that since the list is >> up >> and running now I would try again. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Cindy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> My patron is looking for a book he read back in 1988-1990. Here is the >> description he has given me: >> >> >> >> **************** >> >> The subject matter is the dispersal of heroes after the Trojan war. It >> is a history (or alleged history) of the trek these fellows made >> northwesterly.. some traveling as far as Norse lands. >> >> >> >> The author asserts that these wanderers stopped at various locations >> on >> their trek, and by comparison to the local inhabitants were rather >> advanced in their knowledge of science, agriculture, etc., and were as >> a >> consequence considered gods by the locals. >> >> >> >> The author contends that it is this group of emigrants whose knowledge >> and abilities gave rise to the Norse panoply of gods. >> >> **************** >> >> >> >> My first thought was The Odyssey but that doesn't really fit. >> >> >> >> He remembers the book being here at USF when he was here 1988 - 1990. >> I >> have searched our catalog but the book that he thought sounded closest >> is missing, so I can't look at the actual book to see if it is the >> right >> one. That book is Gods and myths of northern Europe by Hilda Roderick >> Ellis Davidson. >> >> >> >> If anyone on the list has this book in their collection, could you >> look >> it over and see if it could be the book he is looking for? If it seems >> promising, he can request an interlibrary loan. >> >> >> >> Or possibly someone knows of another book that fits this description? >> It >> is possible that the book was weeded from our collection in the last >> 15+ >> years so it may not even be in our online catalog. >> >> >> >> Any help is greatly appreciated! >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> Cindy >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Project Wombat >> list at project-wombat.org >> http://www.project-wombat.org/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > From evandro.da.nobrega at gmail.com Mon Jan 23 21:03:37 2006 From: evandro.da.nobrega at gmail.com (Evandro da Nobrega) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:03:37 -0300 Subject: [PW] Re: Seeking Confucius quote In-Reply-To: <43D5B1E4.9050509@wcnet.org> References: <43D5B1E4.9050509@wcnet.org> Message-ID: <831f46990601232103r68f77b16s88411ed1e4825edd@mail.gmail.com> DEAR MR. ZIMMERMAN: The usual quotation is: "The superior man abides in his room. If his words are well spoken, he meets with assent at a distance of more than a thousand miles". [I Ching, 61. Chung Fu = Inner Truth]. It is indeed a "li". Best regards, Evandro da N?brega [Druzz], from Brazil ********************************* Evandrus Anovrecensis, "... ad radices castro Anofrice, apud Galicia"... ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( On 1/24/06, Paul Zimmerman wrote: > > I am also seeking the exact citation in the Analects for a statement that > I > had thought Confucius was credited with. It goes something like "If a man > merely sit in his room and speak the truth, he will be heard a thousand > miles (Li?) away." Trying to find this in my own copy of the Analects (The > Arthur Waley translation) has not worked. Am I perhaps remembering the > wrong > source for this quote? Should it be attributed to someone else? > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > From pzimmer at wcnet.org Mon Jan 23 20:46:51 2006 From: pzimmer at wcnet.org (Paul Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:46:51 -0500 Subject: [PW] Stone Soup Message-ID: <43D5B13B.6010806@wcnet.org> Yay! In celebration of the return of Stumpers, even if in a new guise, I'll post what I was considering posting before the interruption to test my new subscription: There is an ongoing 'urban legend' of a scientist lecturing about the solar system (variously William James, Bertrand Russell, or even Isaac Asimov) and being confronted by some little old lady who claims that the earth is not a round ball in space but stands on the back of a gigantic turtle. Inevitably, the scientist asks what she thinks the turtle stands on and she says another turtle. Sooner or later this line of questioning results in the triumphant statement "It's turtles all the way down!" Many people have sought the origin of this 'urban legend'. There were some discussions of this in the Stumpers archives which I cannot look up right now. But that 'urban legend' has taken a new twist for me recently as I ran across something BY WILLIAM JAMES that relates directly to this idea. While writing about a topic not related to astronomy, James is talking about the human need to have a clear chain of reasons, a 'fixed reference' from which to measure everything: For the absolute moralists, on the contrary, the interests are not merely to be felt, -- they are to be believed in and obeyed. Not only is it best for my social interests to keep my promise, but best for me to have those interests, and best for the cosmos to have this me. Like the old woman in the story who described the world as resting on a rock, and then explained that rock to be supported by another rock, and finally when pushed with questions said it was rocks all the way down, -- he who believes this to be a radically moral universe must hold the moral order to rest either on an absolute and ultimate should, or on a series of shoulds all the way down. -- William James in The Sentiment of Rationality (in The Will to Believe, p. 104) Hmm, 'rocks all the way down', not turtles. But once again, it is an appeal to infinite regression by an 'old woman', and once again it is 'the story going around' -- ALREADY an 'urban legend' when he relates it. Googling on the phrase 'rocks all the way down' produces some interesting results: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11087/11087.txt Title: Atlantic Monthly, Volume 6, Issue 35, September, 1860 Author: Various ... I am a geologist, and believe that there are rocks all the way down, and that we had much better stand on them than wriggle in mere chaotic space. ... I hope the snopes.com people are already here so they can work this into their treatment of this topic. :) Further research on the phrase 'rocks all the way down' may ultimately produce a more satisfactory answer about the origin of this idea than searching for turtles. :) Any further information by anyone else is appreciated. From swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 21:02:32 2006 From: swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com (swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:02:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: Stone Soup In-Reply-To: <43D5B13B.6010806@wcnet.org> Message-ID: <20060124050232.91253.qmail@web82106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> According to a 1994 Stumpers-L entry with the subject, "Turtles all the way down", the earliest known citation appears in John R. Ross, Constraints on variables in syntax (1967): The following anecdote is told of William James. I have been unable to find any published reference to it, so it may be that I have attributed it to the wrong man, or that it is apocryphal. Be that as it may, because of its bull's-eye relevance to the study of syntax, I have retold it here. After a lecture on cosmology and the structure of the solar system, William James was accosted by a little old lady. "Your theory that the sun is the centre of the solar system, and the earth is a ball which rotates around it has a very convincing ring to it, Mr. James, but it's wrong. I've got a better theory," said the little old lady. "And what is that, madam?" inquired James politely. "That we live on a crust of earth which is on the back of a giant turtle." Not wishing to demolish this absurd little theory by bringing to bear the masses of scientific evidence he had at his command, James decided to gently dissuade his opponent by making her see some of the inadequacies of her position. "If your theory is correct, madam," he asked, "what does this turtle stand on?" "You're a very clever man, Mr. James, and that's a very good question," replied the little old lady, "but I have an answer to it. And it is this: the first turtle stands on the back of a second, far larger, turtle, who stands directly under him." "But what does this second turtle stand on?" persisted James patiently. To this the little old lady crowed triumphantly. "It's no use , Mr. James -- it's turtles all the way down." --- Paul Zimmerman wrote: > Yay! > > In celebration of the return of Stumpers, even if in > a new guise, I'll post > what I was considering posting before the > interruption to test my new > subscription: > > There is an ongoing 'urban legend' of a scientist > lecturing about the solar > system (variously William James, Bertrand Russell, > or even Isaac Asimov) and > being confronted by some little old lady who claims > that the earth is not a > round ball in space but stands on the back of a > gigantic turtle. Inevitably, > the scientist asks what she thinks the turtle stands > on and she says another > turtle. Sooner or later this line of questioning > results in the triumphant > statement "It's turtles all the way down!" Many > people have sought the > origin of this 'urban legend'. There were some > discussions of this in the > Stumpers archives which I cannot look up right now. > But that 'urban legend' > has taken a new twist for me recently as I ran > across something BY WILLIAM > JAMES that relates directly to this idea. > > While writing about a topic not related to > astronomy, James is talking about > the human need to have a clear chain of reasons, a > 'fixed reference' from > which to measure everything: > > For the absolute moralists, on the contrary, the > interests are not merely to > be felt, -- they are to be believed in and obeyed. > Not only is it best for > my social interests to keep my promise, but best for > me to have those > interests, and best for the cosmos to have this me. > Like the old woman in > the story who described the world as resting on a > rock, and then explained > that rock to be supported by another rock, and > finally when pushed with > questions said it was rocks all the way down, -- he > who believes this to be > a radically moral universe must hold the moral order > to rest either on an > absolute and ultimate should, or on a series of > shoulds all the way down. > > -- William James in The Sentiment of Rationality (in > The Will to Believe, p. > 104) > > Hmm, 'rocks all the way down', not turtles. But once > again, it is an appeal > to infinite regression by an 'old woman', and once > again it is 'the story > going around' -- ALREADY an 'urban legend' when he > relates it. Googling on > the phrase 'rocks all the way down' produces some > interesting results: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11087/11087.txt > > Title: Atlantic Monthly, Volume 6, Issue 35, > September, 1860 > > Author: Various > ... > I am a geologist, and believe that there are rocks > all the > way down, and that we had much better stand on them > than wriggle in mere > chaotic space. > ... > > I hope the snopes.com people are already here so > they can work this into > their treatment of this topic. :) Further research > on the phrase 'rocks all > the way down' may ultimately produce a more > satisfactory answer about the > origin of this idea than searching for turtles. :) > Any further information > by anyone else is appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > ..................... "Life is just one damned thing after another" -Elbert Hubbard 1856?1915 The Philistine (Dec. 1909) Sue Watkins National Genealogical Society/ Association of Professional Genealogists From fred.shapiro at yale.edu Mon Jan 23 14:20:08 2006 From: fred.shapiro at yale.edu (Fred Shapiro) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:20:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PW] Re: etymology of the word 'compliant' In-Reply-To: <20060123221013.11044.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060123221013.11044.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Kevin O'Kelly wrote: > I've checked a variety of resources, including several online > dictionaries, the Online Etymology Dictionary, www.word-detective.com, > www.wordorigins.com, and others. The closest I've come is the etymology > of 'comply' and 'pliant'. The OED has "[f. COMPLY v. + -ANT; after defiant, etc.]" as the etymology. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jfranklin at project-wombat.org Tue Jan 24 01:02:33 2006 From: jfranklin at project-wombat.org (John Franklin) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:02:33 -0600 Subject: [PW] Volunteers (Was: the moderators) In-Reply-To: <009101c620bf$6fac6810$e3384884@lib.ad.bgu.ac.il> References: <009101c620bf$6fac6810$e3384884@lib.ad.bgu.ac.il> Message-ID: <93868CD6-528B-4B45-8AC4-B466E7B1C7C9@project-wombat.org> The moderators, at the moment, are the board. (In fact, I haven't even gone into the moderator interface once today, having been busy with other things, so we know the board is taking this seriously.) I had been wondering why I never received any offers to volunteer after setting up the volunteer page, and just now I realized I never hooked up that address to actually deliver mail. (Whoops!) So if anyone offered and was waiting for a reply, please resend! So many things to get working, so little caffeine... Anyone who volunteers to help out with Project Wombat will have a user name of their own choosing. Whether they choose their real names, or pseudonyms, or whatever, the choice is theirs. (I feel that nobody should ever be _required_ to give their name on the Internet.) My current project is to give all volunteers a little web space on the main site. It's taking a while. The central listing will tell you which user names have which roles. -John Franklin On Jan 24, 2006, at 2:23 AM, Tsviya Polani wrote: > I too want to thank John for all his efforts. My mailbox was very > empty in > January. Does the list of moderators appear anywhere (that I > missed) on the > PW site? Can you tell us who the other moderators are? > > Tsviya Polani > Reference Librarian > Aranne Library > Ben-Gurion University of the Negev > Be'er Sheva, Israel From pzimmer at wcnet.org Mon Jan 23 20:49:40 2006 From: pzimmer at wcnet.org (Paul Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:49:40 -0500 Subject: [PW] Seeking Confucius quote Message-ID: <43D5B1E4.9050509@wcnet.org> I am also seeking the exact citation in the Analects for a statement that I had thought Confucius was credited with. It goes something like "If a man merely sit in his room and speak the truth, he will be heard a thousand miles (Li?) away." Trying to find this in my own copy of the Analects (The Arthur Waley translation) has not worked. Am I perhaps remembering the wrong source for this quote? Should it be attributed to someone else? From wmadavis at iglou.com Mon Jan 23 21:36:18 2006 From: wmadavis at iglou.com (Bill Davis) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:36:18 -0500 Subject: [PW] Website helps identify songs In-Reply-To: <43D5B1E4.9050509@wcnet.org> References: <43D5B1E4.9050509@wcnet.org> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20060124003337.01d7f918@pop.iglou.com> If you (or your patron) can hum a tune, but can't recall it's title, go to this site: http://www.songtapper.com/ You tap out the rhythm of a song with your space bar, and the site returns with a list of matching songs. I tried it three times with songs I knew, and it gave me the correct song each time. Bill Davis From magnoire at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 05:36:17 2006 From: magnoire at gmail.com (Magnoire La Chouette) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:36:17 -0600 Subject: [PW] "Cannon Breech" Shotgun Message-ID: <47e741790601240536g6e008066y9b7772c781869f75@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have a picture of this shotgun? Probably made by Hopkins & Allen who used "Cannon Breech" as a trade name... I've tried the gun collectors websites, all of our databases and reference sources and have only got information but patron needs a picture. I'm glad Stumpers/Wombats are back!!! Maggie Collins State Library of Louisiana mcollins at state.lib.la.us From redfernshaw at yahoo.com Tue Jan 24 07:11:59 2006 From: redfernshaw at yahoo.com (Jocelyn Shaw) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:11:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: Video Question Message-ID: <20060124151159.11967.qmail@web34208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, Thanks, but it is not "Dot and the Whale". There were no humans involved and it wasn't a series. Jocelyn Jocelyn Shaw, MLIS Documents Librarian, Web Mistress Hackley Public Library 316 W Webster Ave Muskegon MI 49441 jshaw at hackleylibrary.org http://hackleylibrary.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! From dyson at indiana.edu Tue Jan 24 08:59:56 2006 From: dyson at indiana.edu (dyson at indiana.edu) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:59:56 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: "Cannon Breech" Shotgun In-Reply-To: <47e741790601240536g6e008066y9b7772c781869f75@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e741790601240536g6e008066y9b7772c781869f75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1138121996.43d65d0c8a66a@webmail.iu.edu> Quoting Magnoire La Chouette : > Does anyone have a picture of this shotgun? > Probably made by Hopkins & Allen who used "Cannon Breech" as a trade name... > I've tried the gun collectors websites, all of our databases and reference > sources and have only got information but patron needs a picture. > I'm glad Stumpers/Wombats are back!!! Try www.gabelguns.com. He is apparently the man when it comes to old shotguns. John Dyson From even.flood at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 08:02:05 2006 From: even.flood at gmail.com (Even Flood) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:02:05 +0200 Subject: [PW] Re: Trojan War/Norse Gods In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/24/06, Karen Weiss wrote: > > I found this in a review of the Edda on Amazon: > > "Edda was written as a handbook for poets and scholars, to aid in > understanding ancient Scandinavian poetry, which was thick with > mythological allusions. Edda also provides guidelines for composing new > poems using traditional forms. It was written two or three centuries > into the Christian era of northern Europe, when old pagan lore was > already nearly forgotten. Snorri's book kept his ancestor's cultural > heritage from disappearing completely. He treats the old myths very > kindly, but is careful to throw in the obligatory Christian warnings > about "false religion." According to "Gylfaginning," (the first and > most interesting part of the Edda) the Norse gods - the Aesir - were > originally a tribe of people who migrated to the North from Turkey. > They were veterans of the Trojan War (!) so cultured and > technologically advanced that they were regarded as gods by the > ignorant folk in the lands they conquered and settled. According to > Snorri, most of the mythological stories are analogous to episodes from > the Iliad." > > I got this as a Google cache. I can't seem to locate the review by > searching Amazon itself. The search terms I used were trojan war norse > gods europe fiction. > > Now, I'm not saying this is your patron's book, but it is the closest I > have come in my search. > > Karen Weiss > Snorri Sturlasons EDDA is online full text at http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre03.htm, and the myth connecting Troy and the norse gods is in the prologue. However it might not be the book you are looking for. I have a suspicion there are many pseudoscientific texts arguing something along those lines, one of them is by Thor Heyerdahl in a late work describing a search for Odin (He does not go back to Troy, though). But I do not know of any specific. Also the saga of the Norwegian kings, the "Heimskringla", also by Snorri Sturluson, online at http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/ has the same myth about the norse gods being originally chieftains originating in or about Turkey. Here also the myth is in the opening of the first saga. Even -- Even Flood, Senior Academic Librarian Ilevollen 3e N 7018 Trondheim, Norway. Phone: +47 73 52 53 53/ +47 95 11 58 14 even.flood at gmail.com http://home.broadpark.no/~evflood/ "Come, and take choice of all my library, and so beguile thy sorrow." (Shakespeare) From cearly at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Jan 24 10:11:25 2006 From: cearly at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Early) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:11:25 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: ? Al Gore / Broken Cup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060124130946.039dfbb0@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> It was an ashtray, not a coffee cup, and it happened on Letterman sometime in 1993 (see http://www.mercatus.org/regradar/topnews/archives/004650.php). At 12:51 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote: >Hi - > >Does anyone recall Al Gore's appearance on one of the late shows >(Carson, Letterman, Leno??) where he broke the coffee cup to ridicule >Military Specifications and/or government wasteful spending? Checked >Lexis/Nexis without success. > >Thank you in advance - > >Bruce > >thornlowb at ndu.edu > > > >_______________________________________________ >Project Wombat >list at project-wombat.org >http://www.project-wombat.org/ Charles Early Library, Code 292 (301) 286-0887, Fax (301) 286-8218 Goddard Space Flight Center Charles.T.Early.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, MD 20771 Information International Associates, Inc. *If you have a moment, please fill out our online customer satisfaction survey : http://library.gsfc.nasa.gov/surveys/customer/customersatisfactionevaluation.htm From ddalrymple at spokanelibrary.org Tue Jan 24 09:32:30 2006 From: ddalrymple at spokanelibrary.org (Dana Dalrymple) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:32:30 -0800 Subject: [PW] Death/Dying book Message-ID: <41BB8AE8466CB24996A805F02EB9D3B0BEF948@newman.spokanelibrary.org> > Hello everyone, > > Here is a somewhat complicated description of a book on death and > dying that a patron remembers. Does anyone recognize it? > > The book is about a woman journalist who was dying of cancer. While > she was in bed she wrote a book about Southern ideas of death and > beliefs about where spirits go after death and also about spirits > coming back. After the writer died, another book was written about > the dying woman documenting what she did. The original book could > have been fiction or nonfiction. The original writer's last name > started with a C. > > I briefly looked on Google and Amazon, but the description is so vague > that it was hard to narrow the search enough. I am pretty sure the > book is NOT _Dixie Spirits_. Thanks for any ideas. > > Dana Dalrymple > Reference Librarian > Spokane Public Library > From Dennis.K.Lien-1 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jan 24 10:16:22 2006 From: Dennis.K.Lien-1 at tc.umn.edu (Dennis Lien) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:16:22 -0600 Subject: [PW] Re: photocopy request for 1998 article in "Homes & Antiques" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20060124121157.02f007e0@d-lien.email.umn.edu> At 08:26 PM 1/22/2006, you wrote: >I have tried ILL for this and had no luck. Does anyone have access to the >December 1998 issue of Homes & Antiques magazine? I am looking for the >article about a Georgian Christmas dinner, complete with historical >references and recipes. I have also tried going through the publisher, but >didn't get anywhere. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you all ahead >of time for your help! > >Janice Sellers > >-- >Janice Sellers (Miss), Publications Coordinator >Seismological Society of America > COPAC show British holdings at the British Library, Cambridge U, Trinity College Dublin, the National Library of Scotland, and the National Library of Wales. I didn't try checking individual catalogs to see which would have 1998 issues. Some have the title as BBC HOMES & ANTIQUES. http://copac.ac.uk/ Dennis Lien / U of Minnesota Libraries // d-lien at umn.edu From ellen at smithie.com Tue Jan 24 10:17:02 2006 From: ellen at smithie.com (Ellen Cousins) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:17:02 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: ? Al Gore / Broken Cup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D66F1E.8070907@smithie.com> This document, and other references, place the event in September, 1993: Implementing Federal Procurement Reform by Steven Kelman ...My several-month apprenticeship in the fall of 1993 taught me a great deal that turned out to be crucial to the strategy I would follow on my job: ...Then, the week in September when the NPR report appeared, Vice President Gore appeared on David Letterman to make fun of a government procurement specification for an ashtray that required that the glass break into no more than a certain number of pieces when hit with a hammer. (On national television, Gore took out one of the ashtrays and a hammer, put on safety glasses, and proceeded to smash the ashtray.)... http://www.ashinstitute.harvard.edu/Ash/kelman.pdf Ellen C. Thornlow, Bruce wrote: > Hi - > > Does anyone recall Al Gore's appearance on one of the late shows > (Carson, Letterman, Leno??) where he broke the coffee cup to ridicule > Military Specifications and/or government wasteful spending? Checked > Lexis/Nexis without success. > > Thank you in advance - > > Bruce > > thornlowb at ndu.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > From fundisl at weirton.lib.wv.us Tue Jan 24 09:59:41 2006 From: fundisl at weirton.lib.wv.us (Lois Aleta Fundis) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:59:41 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: etymology of the word 'compliant' In-Reply-To: <3ED3E3C081068549BB5AF080B9395B1012E73E@EXCV21.srp.gov> References: <3ED3E3C081068549BB5AF080B9395B1012E73E@EXCV21.srp.gov> Message-ID: <43D66B0D.4070200@weirton.lib.wv.us> GOUWENS ELIZABETH C (BETH) wrote: > I have a patron who is looking for the etymology of the word > 'compliant'. > I've checked a variety of resources, including several online > dictionaries, the Online Etymology Dictionary, www.word-detective.com, > www.wordorigins.com, and others. The closest I've come is the etymology > of 'comply' and 'pliant'. > Any suggestions of other places to look? I'm going to try to check a > couple of print resources this evening. Beth, since you seem to have missed all the classes in school on how to find out about origins of words, here's a cheat sheet. For matters etymological in the English language, the best source is the Oxford English Dictionary. But our library only has the original print edition, which is unwieldy (many large, heavy volumes) and somewhat out-of-date, and we don't subscribe to the new online version, which is a bit costly. So for the next best thing, my favorite source is the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition, abbreviated AHD4, which is online for free at http://www.bartleby.com/61 followed by the Merriam-Webster online http;//www.m-w.com both of which are also available in book form, of course, and should be in your library. (In libraries that use Dewey they'd be in 423.) I am going to use the AHD4 here. There is no etymology listed in AHD4 for "compliant" http://www.bartleby.com/61/9/C0530900.html or "compliance" or a couple of other variant forms, but the entry for "comply" http://www.bartleby.com/61/22/C0532200.html says "Middle English complien, to carry out, fulfill, from Old French complir, from Latin complere. See complete." The entry for "complete" http://www.bartleby.com/61/94/C0529400.html says, "Middle English complet, from Latin completus, past participle of complere, to fill out : com-, intensive pref.; see com? + plere, to fill; see pel-1 in Appendix I." http://www.bartleby.com/61/94/C0529400.html So "comply" and "complete" both come from a Latin root word "plere", meaning to fill, added to which was "com-", a prefix stemming from the Latin word meaning "with". The dictionary's entry for this prefix at http://www.bartleby.com/61/72/C0497200.html says it can also mean "together" or "joint" or "jointly". The "-ant" is a suffix added on to "comply". In such formations, "y" is changed to "i" in the spelling of the word; thus "ply" becomes "pliant" and "comply" becomes "compliant". (I think we learned that in second grade.) The entry for "-ant" says: 1a. Performing, promoting, or causing a specified action: acceptant. b. Being in a specified state or condition: flippant. 2a. One that performs, promotes, or causes a specified action: deodorant. b. One that undergoes a specified action: inhalant. "Flippant", "deodorant", and "inhalant" are examples; they are italicized in the entry. And the entry has an etymology for the suffix, too: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin -ans, -ant-, present participle suff. of verbs in -re. (Which may only make sense if you took French or Latin [or possibly Spanish or Italian] in school, but it means that, at least originally, -ant was added only to verbs of a certain form.) Note that sometimes suffixes and prefixes can be hard to find in the AHD4 just by the usual fill-in-the-blank searches. You can find them, or any other entry, though, by going to the Entry Index http://www.bartleby.com/61/s0.html This gives you a range of words. The suffix "-ant", for example, is in the range between "annuli" and "antique". You can click on either "annuli" or "antique" to get to the list of words in that range. Then you go down the list until you find "-ant", which has a hyphen (the -) in front of it so you can tell it's a suffix and not a word for a pesky insect. -- Lois Fundis fundisl at weirton.lib.wv.us From Thornlowb at ndu.edu Tue Jan 24 09:51:07 2006 From: Thornlowb at ndu.edu (Thornlow, Bruce) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:51:07 -0500 Subject: [PW] ? Al Gore / Broken Cup Message-ID: Hi - Does anyone recall Al Gore's appearance on one of the late shows (Carson, Letterman, Leno??) where he broke the coffee cup to ridicule Military Specifications and/or government wasteful spending? Checked Lexis/Nexis without success. Thank you in advance - Bruce thornlowb at ndu.edu From bobh at cclib.org Tue Jan 24 09:55:10 2006 From: bobh at cclib.org (Bob Hurley) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:55:10 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Death/Dying book In-Reply-To: <41BB8AE8466CB24996A805F02EB9D3B0BEF948@newman.spokanelibrary.org> Message-ID: Could this be it? Some days there's pie Catherine E. Landis Author: Landis, Catherine Follows the adventures of Ruth, a woman who has run away from her life, with the help of Rose, an elderly, kindly reporter suffering from a terminal illness. New York: St. Martin's Press, 2002 -----Original Message----- From: project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org [mailto:project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org]On Behalf Of Dana Dalrymple Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:33 PM To: list at project-wombat.org Subject: [PW] Death/Dying book > Hello everyone, > > Here is a somewhat complicated description of a book on death and > dying that a patron remembers. Does anyone recognize it? > > The book is about a woman journalist who was dying of cancer. While > she was in bed she wrote a book about Southern ideas of death and > beliefs about where spirits go after death and also about spirits > coming back. After the writer died, another book was written about > the dying woman documenting what she did. The original book could > have been fiction or nonfiction. The original writer's last name > started with a C. > > I briefly looked on Google and Amazon, but the description is so vague > that it was hard to narrow the search enough. I am pretty sure the > book is NOT _Dixie Spirits_. Thanks for any ideas. > > Dana Dalrymple > Reference Librarian > Spokane Public Library > _______________________________________________ Project Wombat list at project-wombat.org http://www.project-wombat.org/ From burtond at union.edu Tue Jan 24 12:40:21 2006 From: burtond at union.edu (Donna Burton) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:40:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PW] Phobias (for future reference) In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.1.20060124003337.01d7f918@pop.iglou.com> Message-ID: I don't recall if this made it into the old stumpers archives, but to immortalize it in the (new) PW archives in any case, I offer this site that lists *tons* of phobias--by phobia name. Unfortunately it's not cross referenced by the phobic element so you need to do a find (CTRL F) function to search: http://www.aboutphobias.com/phobia_list.html#C I think "fear of clowns" was an early query: Coulrophobia - Fear of clowns P.S. Add my kudos to John et al. at Project Gutenberg for working so diligently to resurrect Stumpers. I was going through severe withdrawal without my daily dose of stumpers. Donna Burton Schaffer Library, Union College Schenectady, NY 12308 burtond at union.edu Phone and voice mail: 518-388-6635 Fax: 518-388-6641 ************************************************** You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape. From rdmoores at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 15:28:54 2006 From: rdmoores at gmail.com (Dick Moores) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:28:54 -0800 Subject: [PW] Question re Stevens' "Sunday Morning" Message-ID: I believe there's a typo in Wallace Stevens' Sunday Morning, at . Shouldn't the line in the first stanza, "The day is like wide water, without sound." end with a comma, rather than a period? Thanks, Dick Moores From aachw at earthlink.net Tue Jan 24 15:54:48 2006 From: aachw at earthlink.net (Allegra Wong) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:54:48 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Question re Stevens' "Sunday Morning" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c62141$8f6a7f70$6401a8c0@ibmy9wc0js3j7x> Dick, In The Norton Anthology of Poetry, it is with a comma, just as you say-- "The day is like wide water, without sound," Allegra *** I believe there's a typo in Wallace Stevens' Sunday Morning, at . Shouldn't the line in the first stanza, "The day is like wide water, without sound." end with a comma, rather than a period? Thanks, Dick Moores _______________________________________________ Project Wombat list at project-wombat.org http://www.project-wombat.org/ From karen.weiss2 at verizon.net Tue Jan 24 18:27:33 2006 From: karen.weiss2 at verizon.net (Karen Weiss) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:27:33 -0800 Subject: [PW] Re: Question re Stevens' "Sunday Morning" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In The Collected Poems of Wallace Stevens, Vintage Books, 1990 the line ends in a comma. Karen Weiss On Jan 24, 2006, at 3:28 PM, Dick Moores wrote: > I believe there's a typo in Wallace Stevens' Sunday Morning, at > Sunday.htm>. > > Shouldn't the line in the first stanza, "The day is like wide water, > without sound." end with a comma, rather than a period? > > Thanks, > > Dick Moores > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > From D.J.Bye at shu.ac.uk Wed Jan 25 02:35:41 2006 From: D.J.Bye at shu.ac.uk (Bye, Dan J) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:35:41 -0000 Subject: [PW] Funk & Wagnall's pre-1950 definition enquiry Message-ID: Hi all, I am doing a little research and would like to check the definition of "atheism" in pre-1950 editions of Funk & Wagnall's dictionary (I think it's called the Standard Dictionary of the English Language?). I don't have access to any. If you have sight of one, I'd be grateful for the text of the definition as well as publication details, edition and date etc. Thanks in advance for any assistance which can be emailed direct to me rather than the list. Cheers, Dan d.j.bye at shu.ac.uk From swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com Wed Jan 25 02:48:33 2006 From: swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com (swguardian-stumpers at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:48:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PW] Re: Funk & Wagnall's pre-1950 definition enquiry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060125104833.90171.qmail@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Funk & Wagnalls New Standard Dictionary of the English Language, 1947. atheism: The denial of or disbelief in God, as a First Cause, or Ground, of the universe. As dogmatic atheism it denies, as negative atheism it does not believe in, and as critical or skeptical atheism (or agnosticism) it doubts, the existence of god. What is called positive or dogmatic atheism, so far from being the only type of atheism, is the rarest of all kinds. . . . Every man is an atheist who does not believe that there is a God. R. FLINT Agnosticism sec. 3, p. 53. [s. '03] Theism affirms, Atheism denies, Agnosticism ignores, the existence of any such soul. WAINWRIGHT Sophisms p. 247. [F. & W. 1883] --- "Bye, Dan J" wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am doing a little research and would like to check > the definition of "atheism" in pre-1950 editions of > Funk & Wagnall's > dictionary (I think it's called the Standard > Dictionary of the English Language?). I don't have > access to any. > > If you have sight of one, I'd be grateful for the > text of the definition as well as publication > details, edition and date etc. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance which can be > emailed direct to me rather than the list. > > Cheers, > > Dan > d.j.bye at shu.ac.uk > > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > ..................... "Life is just one damned thing after another" -Elbert Hubbard 1856?1915 The Philistine (Dec. 1909) Sue Watkins National Genealogical Society/ Association of Professional Genealogists From jimm at wingate.edu Wed Jan 25 05:26:38 2006 From: jimm at wingate.edu (Jimm Wetherbee) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:26:38 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Funk & Wagnall's pre-1950 definition enquiry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D77C8E.20003@wingate.edu> Dan, It's not from F&W Standard Dictionary but the 1936 edition of The New Century Dictionary (which I take to be a revision of 1927 Century Dictionary rather than a reference to the 20th century). a-the-ism, n. The doctrine that there is no God; disbelief in the existence of a God (or of gods); also, godlessness of life. Hope half an answer is better than none. --jimm Bye, Dan J wrote: > >Hi all, > >I am doing a little research and would like to check the definition of "atheism" in pre-1950 editions of Funk & Wagnall's >dictionary (I think it's called the Standard Dictionary of the English Language?). I don't have access to any. > >If you have sight of one, I'd be grateful for the text of the definition as well as publication details, edition and date etc. > >Thanks in advance for any assistance which can be emailed direct to me rather than the list. > >Cheers, > >Dan >d.j.bye at shu.ac.uk > > >_______________________________________________ >Project Wombat >list at project-wombat.org >http://www.project-wombat.org/ > > From bkworm at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 25 06:40:14 2006 From: bkworm at ix.netcom.com (wren) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:40:14 -0600 Subject: [PW] traveling librarians? In-Reply-To: <43D77C8E.20003@wingate.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone know of an e-list geared to librarians (or maybe readers) who like to travel or who wish they could travel more frequently? many thanks, pw From sylviamilne at btopenworld.com Wed Jan 25 06:57:35 2006 From: sylviamilne at btopenworld.com (Sylvia Milne) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:57:35 -0000 Subject: [PW] Re: traveling librarians? References: Message-ID: <001a01c621bf$ae47f7a0$8ee68f56@SMPCM7UZ87S> It's not aimed particularly at librarians, but as librarians are not the best paid professionals in the world, BUG, the Backpackers' Ultimate Guide at http://www.bug.co.uk/ might be a good bet. It has a forum. Sylvia Milne Please visit me at http://www.sylviamilne.btinternet.co.uk/plucked/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "wren" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:40 PM Subject: [PW] traveling librarians? > Does anyone know of an e-list geared to librarians (or maybe readers) who > like to travel or who wish they could > travel more frequently? > many thanks, pw > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From hlauer at neflin.org Wed Jan 25 07:44:48 2006 From: hlauer at neflin.org (Heather Lauer) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:44:48 -0500 Subject: [PW] Patron Request - Clyde Flynn Message-ID: <000001c621c6$4672d5d0$a8abb00a@Bradford.com> A patron requested _The River Bank Shanty_ by Clyde Flynn. I cannot find any mention of this on OCLC, Google, AbeBooks, Amazon, etc. The only thing I seem to be able to find was that Clyde Flynn had an uncredit role in A Night in Paradise. HELP! From jfptak at thesciencebookstore.com Wed Jan 25 09:37:36 2006 From: jfptak at thesciencebookstore.com (John Ptak) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:37:36 -0500 Subject: [PW] Map of travel time 1830 (redux) Message-ID: <02f501c621d6$0801c710$6101a8c0@johnwe1gpx6f3s> Hello all, There was a thread about two months ago on the rate of travel in the US pre-rail, and I've just remebered this great travel map from Allan Pred's "Urban Growth and the Circulation of Information: the United States System of Cities" , Harvard 1973, pg. 177. It shows travel time from NYC to various points (as far west as the old NW Territory). There's also another version of this map for the year 1800. If you'd like a copy of the 1830 but don't have access to the book let me know and I'll forward a 60k file. Best, JF Ptak JF Ptak Science Books LLC From hbarnhart at highlands.com Wed Jan 25 12:05:08 2006 From: hbarnhart at highlands.com (Hollis Barnhart) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:05:08 -0500 Subject: [PW] Martin Luther King quote In-Reply-To: <02f501c621d6$0801c710$6101a8c0@johnwe1gpx6f3s> References: <02f501c621d6$0801c710$6101a8c0@johnwe1gpx6f3s> Message-ID: I am looking for the original source of a quote (found on numerous websites) attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr.: _?if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if your enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer._ Any help would be appreciated. Hollis Barnhart Poughkeepsie, New York 12601 From dyson at indiana.edu Tue Jan 24 12:24:21 2006 From: dyson at indiana.edu (dyson at indiana.edu) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:24:21 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: ? Capote Reference (Quotation Query #620) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1138134261.43d68cf5b3e47@webmail.iu.edu> Quoting Fred Shapiro : > > I haven't seen the movie _Capote_, but apparently it ends with the line > "More tears are shed over answered prayers than unanswered ones." I am > told that the film does not give an attribution for this, but that the > introduction to Capote's _Complete Stories_ indicates that he got it from > St. Teresa of Avila. I have not come across the St. Teresa of Avila > attribution before (the more usual attribution for the thought is Oscar > Wilde's "When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers"). Is > anyone able to provide more details for the attribution to St. Teresa of > Avila? Fred, I suspect that this attribution is spurious, but proving the negative is a toughy. I find it in none of her known works. The quote appears frequently on the net attributed to Santa Teresa as does "Life is a wretched night in a wretched inn" (La vida es una mala noche en una mala posada) which she also did not say. John (I-Spent-a-Bad-Week-One-Night-in-a-Motel-6) Dyson Spanish and Portuguese Indiana University From jusmall at maine.edu Wed Jan 25 14:23:13 2006 From: jusmall at maine.edu (Joan Small) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:23:13 -0500 Subject: [PW] Leather Beak Photo? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20060125171818.01bdaa08@mail.maine.edu> How nice to have Stumpers back! In his book "Saturday" Ian McEwan talks about burka-clad women not wearing "leather beaks." We have had no success finding a photo of a leather beak. Any suggestions? Joan Small Reference Department Mantor Library University of Maine at Farmington 116 South St. Farmington ME 04938 (207)778-7226 (207)778-7223(fax) **This message is intended for sole use by the recipient. Please do not forward without permission of the original sender.** From davhaynes at juno.com Wed Jan 25 14:55:11 2006 From: davhaynes at juno.com (davhaynes at juno.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:55:11 -0600 Subject: [PW] ? origin of _pilon_ Message-ID: <20060125.165511.3028.3.davhaynes@juno.com> Good morning, In the Spanish spoken in South Texas and Mexico (at least) a _pilon_ (accent on the o) is a little something extra, usually in a commercial transaction--the fortune cookie after a meal in a Chinese restaurant, for instance. I recently bumped into a story recorded in an 1887 Texas newspaper that the term is a corruption of _pelon_ (accent on the o) in reference to an early San Antonio merchant (Nat Lewis) who gave small pieces of candy to the children of shoppers. He was called 'El Pelon' because he was bald. I would really appreciate any light that anyone can shed on this truly improbable story. Mexican aunts, David David Haynes davhaynes at juno.com San Antonio From tfmills at regiments.org Thu Jan 26 01:05:01 2006 From: tfmills at regiments.org (T.F. Mills) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:05:01 -0700 Subject: [PW] Re: Leather Beak Photo? In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.0.20060125171818.01bdaa08@mail.maine.edu> Message-ID: <43D82E4D.12720.907E7D4@localhost> On 25 Jan 2006 at 12:44, Karen Lofstrom wrote: > The women of Oman wear masks. Here's a picture: > [http://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/galleries/oman/photo3.html] Slight correction: some Bedouin tribal women of the desert interior of Oman wear a form of burqa with leather "beaks", but these are quite rare. Variations of this style can be found throughout the Arabian peninsula and neighbouring areas such as Iran. Oman is quite liberal, and many women wear no head covering at all. Other photos of the "beak" can be found in: National Geographic, Sept. 1981, p. 355 http://www.offroademirates.com/images/bedu-woman.jpg http://www.alc.edu/denham/FileDir/5Mideast/05d2OmanGraphics/OMNh06WomanAndM an.jpg http://www.lsshelton.com/Gallery_0.htm http://www.trekshare.com/slideShowCity.cfm?map_id=1448&imageIndex=0 regards, T. F. Mills From Judy.Scuderi at lakelandgov.net Thu Jan 26 06:55:37 2006 From: Judy.Scuderi at lakelandgov.net (Scuderi, Judy) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:55:37 -0500 Subject: [PW] Famous illustration Message-ID: I am so glad the list is back. I have missed everyone. A special thank you to John Franklin. A patron is looking for what she believes is a famous illustration, painting, or magazine cover. She describes it this way: a young boy and a young girl are sitting at a soda fountain sipping a drink from one straw. She remembers it as being a sort of first date. She thought it might be Norman Rockwell but I have not been able to find it. I have checked online Rockwell prints Saturday Evening Post covers and the following books: Norman Rockwell : storyteller with a brush / Beverly Gherman Norman Rockwell /Elizabeth Miles Montgomery Norman Rockwell: Illustrator It is NOT the Rockwell illustration The Soda Jerk. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Judy Scuderi judy.scuderi at lakelandgov.net Technical Services Librarian Lakeland Public Library 100 Lake Morton Drive Lakeland, Florida 33801 863 834-4278 863 834-4293 (fax) From lodonnell at midyork.org Thu Jan 26 07:12:40 2006 From: lodonnell at midyork.org (Lorie J. O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:12:40 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Famous illustration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e35c639913cc5750e78a5329a63b687@midyork.org> Could it be this one by Nora Hernandez (called Sharing a Soda)? http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Hernandez-Sharing-a-Soda- Posters_i413177_.htm or http://tinyurl.com/c9wx6 Hope this helps. Lorie On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Scuderi, Judy wrote: > I am so glad the list is back. I have missed everyone. A special > thank > you to John Franklin. > > A patron is looking for what she believes is a famous illustration, > painting, or magazine cover. She describes it this way: a young boy > and a young girl are sitting at a soda fountain sipping a drink from > one > straw. She remembers it as being a sort of first date. She thought it > might be Norman Rockwell but I have not been able to find it. > > I have checked online Rockwell prints > > Saturday Evening Post covers > > and the following books: > > Norman Rockwell : storyteller with a brush / Beverly Gherman > > Norman Rockwell /Elizabeth Miles Montgomery > > Norman Rockwell: Illustrator > > It is NOT the Rockwell illustration The Soda Jerk. Any help will be > greatly appreciated. > > > > > Judy Scuderi > judy.scuderi at lakelandgov.net > Technical Services Librarian > Lakeland Public Library > 100 Lake Morton Drive > Lakeland, Florida 33801 > 863 834-4278 > 863 834-4293 (fax) > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ > Lorie J. O'Donnell, MLS Children's Librarian Jervis Public Library 613 N. Washington St. Rome, NY 13440 lodonnell at midyork.org http://www.jervislibrary.org/KidsCorner From phenriksen at neflin.org Thu Jan 26 08:29:23 2006 From: phenriksen at neflin.org (Phalbe Henriksen) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:29:23 -0500 Subject: [PW] Dutch uncle, Dutch treat, etc -- PC language usage In-Reply-To: <1e35c639913cc5750e78a5329a63b687@midyork.org> References: <1e35c639913cc5750e78a5329a63b687@midyork.org> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20060126112435.02b6db58@mail.neflin.org> Folks, I understand that "Indian giver," "welch on a deal," "Chinese fire drill," and other such comments are racist. I can see where "Dutch treat" could be, because the person inviting you to go somewhere isn't going to pay your way, but what about Dutch uncle? Phalbe Henriksen Director Bradford County Public Library Starke, FL From sylviamilne at btopenworld.com Thu Jan 26 08:54:11 2006 From: sylviamilne at btopenworld.com (Sylvia Milne) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:54:11 -0000 Subject: [PW] Re: Dutch uncle, Dutch treat, etc -- PC language usage References: <1e35c639913cc5750e78a5329a63b687@midyork.org> <6.0.1.1.0.20060126112435.02b6db58@mail.neflin.org> Message-ID: <002b01c62299$21934c80$b5b58256@SMPCM7UZ87S> My rather elderly 14th edition of Brewer's dictionary of phrase and fable gives examples like "Dutch courage" and says "The derogatory implications of some of the undermentioned phrases derive from the Anglo-Dutch wars of the 17th century". However under "To talk like a Dutch uncle" it says "To reprove firmly but kindly. The Dutch were noted for their discipline". That doesn't sound derogatory. Sylvia Milne Please visit me at http://www.sylviamilne.btinternet.co.uk/plucked/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phalbe Henriksen" To: Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: [PW] Dutch uncle, Dutch treat, etc -- PC language usage > Folks, > > I understand that "Indian giver," "welch on a deal," "Chinese fire drill," > and other such comments are racist. I can see where "Dutch treat" could > be, > because the person inviting you to go somewhere isn't going to pay your > way, but what about Dutch uncle? > > Phalbe Henriksen > Director > Bradford County Public Library > Starke, FL > > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From bmendes at sailsinc.org Thu Jan 26 08:55:58 2006 From: bmendes at sailsinc.org (Bonnie Mendes) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:55:58 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Dutch uncle, Dutch treat, etc -- PC language usage In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20060126112435.02b6db58@mail.neflin.org> References: <1e35c639913cc5750e78a5329a63b687@midyork.org> <6.0.1.1.0.20060126112435.02b6db58@mail.neflin.org> Message-ID: Maybe this will help.... According to Partridge?s A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English. Dutch uncle, talk to [someone] like a ?To lecture in a way didactic and heavy-handed, yet kindly meant for the person?s own good: coll: from ca 1830...Ex the Dutch reputation for extremely rigorous discipline..." ____________________________________________ Bonnie Mendes, Reference Librarian Somerset Public Library bmendes at sailsinc.org / somersetpl at sailsinc.org 508-646-2829 / 508-646-2830 508-646-2831 (fax) "Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested..." - Francis Bacon 1561 - 1626 -----Original Message----- From: Phalbe Henriksen To: list at project-wombat.org Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:29:23 -0500 Subject: [PW] Dutch uncle, Dutch treat, etc -- PC language usage > Folks, > > I understand that "Indian giver," "welch on a deal," "Chinese fire > drill," > and other such comments are racist. I can see where "Dutch treat" could > be, > because the person inviting you to go somewhere isn't going to pay your > way, but what about Dutch uncle? > > Phalbe Henriksen > Director > Bradford County Public Library > Starke, FL > > > _______________________________________________ > Project Wombat > list at project-wombat.org > http://www.project-wombat.org/ From JorgensonBK at ci.anchorage.ak.us Thu Jan 26 10:27:17 2006 From: JorgensonBK at ci.anchorage.ak.us (Jorgenson, Barbara K.) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:27:17 -0900 Subject: [PW] Re: Famous illustration Message-ID: <70D7A0DBE383294A9A9B1BC1F53BA71392BDD3@SALSA.anc.muniverse.net> I know you checked Rockwell prints but...could it still be this one? (no straw involved, though) http://www.areyougame.com/images/items/BG1081.jpg Barbara Jorgenson Anchorage Municipal Libraries 3600 Denali Street Anchorage, AK 99503 (907)343-2853 (907)343-2820 FAX -----Original Message----- From: project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org [mailto:project-wombat-bounces at lists.project-wombat.org] On Behalf Of Scuderi, Judy Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:56 AM To: list at project-wombat.org Subject: [PW] Famous illustration I am so glad the list is back. I have missed everyone. A special thank you to John Franklin. A patron is looking for what she believes is a famous illustration, painting, or magazine cover. She describes it this way: a young boy and a young girl are sitting at a soda fountain sipping a drink from one straw. She remembers it as being a sort of first date. She thought it might be Norman Rockwell but I have not been able to find it. I have checked online Rockwell prints Saturday Evening Post covers and the following books: Norman Rockwell : storyteller with a brush / Beverly Gherman Norman Rockwell /Elizabeth Miles Montgomery Norman Rockwell: Illustrator It is NOT the Rockwell illustration The Soda Jerk. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Judy Scuderi judy.scuderi at lakelandgov.net Technical Services Librarian Lakeland Public Library 100 Lake Morton Drive Lakeland, Florida 33801 863 834-4278 863 834-4293 (fax) _______________________________________________ Project Wombat list at project-wombat.org http://www.project-wombat.org/ From cearly at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov Thu Jan 26 11:53:19 2006 From: cearly at pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Early) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:53:19 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: Short story about imprisoned girl In-Reply-To: <001201c622b0$c29040e0$9f01a8c0@apl.local> References: <001201c622b0$c29040e0$9f01a8c0@apl.local> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060126145234.03354720@pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov> That sounds like "Those Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula Le Guin. At 02:43 PM 1/26/2006, you wrote: >I have a patron who is looking for a short story he read in college eight >or so years ago that he describes as a morality tale. It was in an >anthology and was a story about a girl imprisoned in the basement of a >house in a wealthy town. When the community members find out about the >girl, some of them leave the town, some of them stay. It basically dealt >with people's various reactions to pain and suffering. > >Not much to go on, I know -- I've tried everything I can think of using >the usual Internet sources but do not have access to any helpful databases. > >Thanks, >Chris Owens >Reference/Adult Services Supervisor >Ashland Public Library >224 Claremont Ave. >Ashland, OH 44805 >419-289-8188, Ext. 15 >cowens at ashland.lib.oh.us >_______________________________________________ >Project Wombat >list at project-wombat.org >http://www.project-wombat.org/ Charles Early Library, Code 292 (301) 286-0887, Fax (301) 286-8218 Goddard Space Flight Center Charles.T.Early.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, MD 20771 Information International Associates, Inc. *If you have a moment, please fill out our online customer satisfaction survey : http://library.gsfc.nasa.gov/surveys/customer/customersatisfactionevaluation.htm From cowens at ashland.lib.oh.us Thu Jan 26 11:43:19 2006 From: cowens at ashland.lib.oh.us (Chris Owens) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:43:19 -0500 Subject: [PW] Short story about imprisoned girl Message-ID: <001201c622b0$c29040e0$9f01a8c0@apl.local> I have a patron who is looking for a short story he read in college eight or so years ago that he describes as a morality tale. It was in an anthology and was a story about a girl imprisoned in the basement of a house in a wealthy town. When the community members find out about the girl, some of them leave the town, some of them stay. It basically dealt with people's various reactions to pain and suffering. Not much to go on, I know -- I've tried everything I can think of using the usual Internet sources but do not have access to any helpful databases. Thanks, Chris Owens Reference/Adult Services Supervisor Ashland Public Library 224 Claremont Ave. Ashland, OH 44805 419-289-8188, Ext. 15 cowens at ashland.lib.oh.us From Dennis.K.Lien-1 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jan 26 12:13:07 2006 From: Dennis.K.Lien-1 at tc.umn.edu (Dennis Lien) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:13:07 -0600 Subject: [PW] Re: Short story about imprisoned girl In-Reply-To: References: <001201c622b0$c29040e0$9f01a8c0@apl.local> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20060126141126.02de9340@d-lien.email.umn.edu> At 01:55 PM 1/26/2006, you wrote: >On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Chris Owens wrote: > > > I have a patron who is looking for a short story he read in college > > eight or so years ago that he describes as a morality tale. It was in an > > anthology and was a story about a girl imprisoned in the basement of a > > house in a wealthy town. When the community members find out about the > > girl, some of them leave the town, some of them stay. It basically dealt > > with people's various reactions to pain and suffering. > >That's not a hard one at all -- it's a famous story. It's by >science-fiction and fantasy author Ursula K. LeGuin. It's called "The ones >who walk away from Omelas"; it won a Hugo Award; it has been anthologized >many times. It will probably be in your library in some form. If not, >google for it -- the whole text is online in several places too. > >-- >Karen Lofstrom And it's ultimately derived from a William James thought-experiment is his "Moral Philosophy and the Moral Life" (1891), namely: "Or if the hypothesis were offered us of a world, in which Messrs. Fourier's and Bellamy's and Morris's utopias should all be outdone, and millions kept happy on the one simple condition that a certain lost soul on the far-off edge of things should lead a life of lonely torment, what except a specificial and independent sort of emotion can it be which would make us immediately feel, even though an impulse arose within us to clutch at the happiness so offered, how hideous a thing would its enjoyment when deliberately accepted as the fruit of such a bargain?" Dennis Lien / U of Minnesota Libraries // d-lien at umn.edu From jhenderson at ithaca.edu Thu Jan 26 13:29:10 2006 From: jhenderson at ithaca.edu (John Henderson) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:29:10 -0500 Subject: [PW] ?dilettante Message-ID: <43D93F26.6040505@ithaca.edu> A colleague is trying to think of a word that at first he just thought he couldn't remember and is now not sure it exists. It is a synonyn for dilettante, but less derogatory. On the other hand, it is less neutral than generalist. The word would describe a person with a very broad, but very shallow knowledge. The professional or amatuer quality is not an issue. Superficial, the person is not necessarily pretentious. Although not necessary a commonplace word, it is not a foreign word (another reason he can't be convinced that dilettante is the word he wants), and is not all that obscure. Another reason he rejects dilettante is that in his mind, dilettante has a connection to the fine arts, and that is confirmed by several dictionaries. Additional rejected words include: abecedarian, dabbler, smatterer, sciolist, librarian. John Henderson Ithaca College Library jhenderson at ithaca.edu [Is the gang all here?] From lofstrom at lava.net Thu Jan 26 11:55:25 2006 From: lofstrom at lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:55:25 -1000 (HST) Subject: [PW] Re: Short story about imprisoned girl In-Reply-To: <001201c622b0$c29040e0$9f01a8c0@apl.local> References: <001201c622b0$c29040e0$9f01a8c0@apl.local> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Chris Owens wrote: > I have a patron who is looking for a short story he read in college > eight or so years ago that he describes as a morality tale. It was in an > anthology and was a story about a girl imprisoned in the basement of a > house in a wealthy town. When the community members find out about the > girl, some of them leave the town, some of them stay. It basically dealt > with people's various reactions to pain and suffering. That's not a hard one at all -- it's a famous story. It's by science-fiction and fantasy author Ursula K. LeGuin. It's called "The ones who walk away from Omelas"; it won a Hugo Award; it has been anthologized many times. It will probably be in your library in some form. If not, google for it -- the whole text is online in several places too. -- Karen Lofstrom From pzi at ingerman.org Thu Jan 26 13:37:25 2006 From: pzi at ingerman.org (Peter Zilahy Ingerman, PhD) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:37:25 -0500 Subject: [PW] Re: ?dilettante In-Reply-To: <43D93F26.6040505@ithaca.edu> References: <43D93F26.6040505@